Andrew Cadman: The great migration debate? Where’s it hiding?

I must have missed it. You did too. Following the release of the latest migration statistics, where was the real debate and analysis about the UK’s electorate’s number one concern? It must have emigrated.

Immigration is endlessly discussed these days, but only in the most minimalist and shallow way our political masters think they can get away with. For instance, Thursday’s figures were, as usual, presented in terms of net migration, a figure that shields the fact that there are huge migratory flows in both directions. At these levels, a net migration of zero would still have colossal cultural and social side-effects as the population is remorselessly churned or replaced.

On that note, let’s discuss emigration for a change. Brits have always emigrated in substantial numbers, but it would be worth understanding why. Are people leaving for a well-earned retirement in the sun, or is it highly skilled youngsters at the peak of their working years? If the latter, how many leave for ever? How many come back, perhaps more enriched and more productive? It might be worth understanding that if we want to solve ‘the productivity puzzle’.

You can go on and on asking such reasonably simple questions but not finding any real answers that the political elites want to give. Has the increase in people leaving happened for perfectly positive reasons, a globalised world affording them more opportunities to do so? Or are people being ‘pushed’ rather than ‘pulled’, leaving because they no longer feel they know or understand their own country, or feel welcome in it, thanks to years of political correctness and vast immigration? Is emigration ‘gendered’, to use that awful word? Census data showing a shortfall in young men certainly suggests so. If this is the case, why? Does male alienation play a part? Is there really a ‘sexodus’?

That is quite a list, and we haven’t even started on immigration. Was the fall in EU nationals arriving and rise in those leaving due to Brexit, as is often alleged, or simple due to the fall in the pound making working here less attractive? Do EU migrants now feel increasingly alienated, perhaps in part due to Theresa May’s characteristically unimaginative and mean-minded decision to use them as a bargaining chip in EU negotiations? If so, how will that affect future social cohesion in our country with the majority of the now over 3million of them who may wish to stay?



Finally, we come to non-EU migration – and we all know what that is a code phrase for, don’t we? The real elephant in the room here is, of course, Islam: the rapid growth of the Muslim demographic is to a large extent driven by immigration, caused by New Labour’s scrapping of the Primary Purpose rule in 1997. Islamic migration causes the public far more concern than any other immigration-related issue, and with very good reason. ‘Family reunion’ policies allow British-born Muslims to bring in relatives via ‘arranged’ marriages and other devices. Usually low-skilled with often deeply restrictive religious values, this type of migration flow has severely hampered or even reversed integration and allowed sectarianism and separation to flourish – with tragic and severely negative consequences for our society. It has also greatly increased the strain on the health service in Muslim areas, due to the cultural habit of marriage between first cousins leading to a huge increase in birth defects.

In essence, so what if net immigration is down? It may be welcome in the limited sense that it may help the lower paid, and therefore vindicate those brave but vilified souls who campaigned on the issue and helped win the Brexit referendum on the back of it. However the figures conceal deeper truths our society desperately needs answers to, but which those in power are deeply reluctant to give.

Andrew Cadman

  • martianonlooker

    When it comes to government immigration or emigration figures there isn’t enough salt in the Cheshire salt mines for a required pinch to be taken.

  • Colkitto03

    This is an interesting article and you are right it is all but never discussed. The dearth of young men in the UK is not surprising.

    Also, in the whole emmigration/immigration discussion, the huge amount of British men marrying foreign women is a very rarely covered.

    There must be tens of millions of women around the world who would consider a British husband as a great prize.

  • CRSM

    This article is all very well, but we have read similar ones dozens of times before. Words written on obscure web sites are going to do nothing at all. The only thing that will cause the government to even acknowledge the depth of unease is for a public uprising to put the fear of God into them.
    The village up the hill from me was the site of what has been called “England’s Last Revolution”. Perhaps it’s time now after 200 years to prove the claim to be incorrect!

    • martianonlooker

      Past the time, some would say.

  • Uusikaupunki

    “….the population is remorselessly churned or replaced.”

    There is a good reason for the silence.

    • Reborn

      David Coleman, Professor of Demography at Oxford University published an article in 2010
      It was published in the liberal magazine Prospect, editor David Goodhart, himself now a bit of a pariah in pc circles.
      Prof Coleman’s thesis was that if current immigration levels continue, white Britons will be a minority in the UK in 50 years.
      Goodhart’s great crime was to point out this
      Excluding the Irish, more immigrants enter the UK each year than came between
      1066 & 1950.

      • evad666

        So when will it stop and are there enough prison cells to house objectors?

        • martianonlooker

          They only need prison cells to house the indigenous

    • UKSteve

      Oh, here we go.

      OK, once more in vain hope: WHAT is the point of ‘race replacement’?

      • Uusikaupunki

        That’s strange…I don’t recollect you asking me that before but never mind….

        “The EU should “do its best to undermine” the “homogeneity” of its member
        states, the UN’s special representative for migration has said”

        Peter Sutherland. (UN special representative for migration).

        • UKSteve

          That’s breathtakingly pathetic. Are you serious?

          I may not have asked you before, but I’ve asked this dozens of times, and never got a serious answer. Like now.

          What Sutherland is saying is that the EU should, through open borders and immigration, diversify it’s societies. That’s not the same thing as race replacement, which is what you posted.

          I asked “WHAT is the point of ‘race replacement?, and you’ve avoided answering it. I was attempting to elicit what the reason / objective / goal was for a seemingly evil and purposeless policy, often spouted by tin foil hatters.

          • Uusikaupunki

            Yes, you are correct in that I gave a rather flippant reply….my apologies.
            My own personal view is, that if you can import enough immigrants, whether legally or in the back of a lorry, over enough years, their culture(s) and their progeny eventually will overtake and replace the indigenous. The point of this is I think the fact that a new population with no particular loyalty to the UK, except as a place to eat, sleep and make money will tend to go along with and be pliable to any Government policies that might have been inimicable to nationalists whose roots go back a thousand years….just my thoughts on the matter.

          • UKSteve

            Apology not required, old sort – this is a an adult discussion forum. I’ve seen several posters with “Steve” type IDs – I very rarely even read GP, even though a good few people have ….’migrated’….there from here, some enforced by Gweed! It reminds me of Guido a few years ago – terrible! Guido is much better, lately!

            Only mentally troubled people think that immigration has benefited the UK; it has gotten completely out of hand in this country, and virtually all of it under Labour governments. The 1940’s – on the advice of Enoch Powell among others! – the 60s and 70s and Blair:

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

            Andrew (Lord) Green of Migrationwatch produced a report after 6 years of careful research, to show that mass immigration has brought ZERO benefit to the UK, and in fact, costs. The House of Lords didn’t like this, so commissioned their own report, using different research methods. It came to exactly the same conclusion.

            I think immigration at admittedly uncontrollable levels we’ve seen has caused untold harm to this country and its indigenes, I believe the politicians now this, but are to inept or cowardly to do anything about it. Incompetence rather than malice.

      • Reborn

        The reasons are too many to enumerate here.
        Try this for starters.
        Labour/Trotskyites etc want a new electorate that owes everything to them & will vote accordingly.
        Purely Darwinian forces push civilisations to expand & destroy previous, weaker, ones. If the West is seen, rightly, to be cowardly & lacking in confidence, a stronger & more aggressive culture will replace it.

        • UKSteve

          Thanks for the reply, but it doesn’t make sense.

          I’ve seen the argument about an “immigrated voter base”, and it doesn’t hold. I know that there are swathes of Indian / Pakistani / Bangladeshi’s who are 1st / 2nd gen Labour voters, but research shows 3rd generation (18+), as more entrepreneurial, are not.

          The Darwinian reference is a wild generalisation. It applies to ant colonies and lion prides, but to a country like the UK? All of the things that are taken for granted require extremely careful management, and will disappear with the skills to maintain them.

          It’s a doom -laden scenario that is based on wild conjecture, not research. The answer to change policy on immigration / asylum etc., and thereby halt it – is to vote for “somebody else”. But for the last 6 decades, the sheeple have voted (82 – 88%) for these 3 useless parties.

        • JabbaPapa

          Purely Darwinian forces

          Pretty much nobody believes in the “Purely Darwinian” version of the theory of evolution these days …

          • Reborn

            Obviously, Darwin was unaware of the genetic aspects of evolution.
            The term Darwinism is shorthand for a whole tranche of behaviours,
            events etc.
            I must try to get into the habit of replacing Darwinism with “evolutionary factors”

  • Liberanos

    Even when made aware that islam commands the destruction of Jews, Christians and infidels…in writing…and the evidence of our own eyes with the outrages in Manchester and London, not to mention daily on the streets of the world, we still maintain that there is nothing to concern us in the ever-increasing population of muslims in our midst. Sometimes mass madness seems the only possible explanation. What else could it possibly be? And to those who say it’s only a proportion of believers who are involved, at least in this country, well, of course, I agree. But what kind of people could continue to belong to an organisation which issues and supports such vile, murderous commands? They may well have killed no one, and never would. But by their affiliation they are soaked in its blood and by the same token, continue to give this mediaeval death cult legitimacy, here in a western, civilised democracy.

  • Damaris Tighe

    ‘Net migration’ (resulting in population churn – great phrase Andrew) is a deliberate deceit in which if 1000 native Brits leave and 1000 Kashmiri villagers arrive, nothing is deemed to have happened.

    But of course, something has happened and our society and culture will pay for it. Britain will become increasingly a patchwork of tribes (‘communities’) who find the way of life of other tribes incomprehensible and disgusting, united only by paper citizenship. The nation forged over a thousand years into a people united by history, language and mores will have been wilfully trashed. Once lost it’s difficult to regain.

    • grrlpower

      Can you actually define British “culture and norms”, in concrete terms?

      And spare me the bullsh*t about warm beer and cricket.

      • Reborn

        You, obviously, are not British, though you may have acquired a UK passport somewhere.
        The French, Chinese, Americans, Japanese et al all know what their cultures mean.
        If you don’t understand ours, then I suggest you are probably unfit to live here.

        • grrlpower

          I don’t want to live here. I am in the process of renouncing my British citizenship and becoming an EU citizen.

          This insular, narrow-minded, xenophobic, jingoistic, damp, miserable little country is going to pay dearly for Brexit. I’m leaving before the sh*t hits the fan.

          • Shazza

            Don’t let the door slam you on your a**e on the way out.

          • martianonlooker

            Oh, I don’t know! it would give us all a laugh. Sadly that bint has been threatening to leave since Brexit vote.

          • RingedPlover

            To Europe? I think we are witnesing the death thoes of Western Civilisation. You won’t be able to esacpe it wherever you go.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Off you toddle then. Your kind of anglophobic hatred is not conducive to a healthy society.

          • PierrePendre

            He’s trolling you. There’s no such thing as European citizenship, only citizenship of EU member states and they don’t hand out citizenship like confetti. Assuming one of them did take him, he wouldn’t be employable without its language. My guess is that he has no intention of leaving. Unfortunately since he’d be no loss with an attitude like his.

          • Sargv

            She should try Albania. They’ll find a job for a brave girl with no passport that doesn’t speak the language in no time.

          • PierrePendre

            Lots of Albanian girls proving the truth of that in France and Germany.

          • Andy

            Good, f off then.

          • Lagopus scotica

            Not Canada, then, princess? Was it too far for you? Couldn’t you find it on your atlas? Never mind, just tell me which country, and I’ll get that whip round for a one way ticket sorted ASAP.

          • hedgemagnet

            For God’s sake, you’re beyond tedious now. If you’re so flippin brave and powerrrfull then why don’t you just hurry up and go. It’s not exactly difficult and there’s absolutely nothing stopping you. (Apart, I imagine, from enough fluency in another European language to land you a decent job – just like the vast majority of the wailing children who’ve threatened to leave)

            Btw, you were told on here recently that there’s no actual thing as EU citizenship: you have to become a citizen of an EU member country. Are you unable to understand replies or just a bit thick?

          • Reborn

            Just thick in general.

          • Jolly Roger

            If the sh*t hits, it’ll be a fan plugged in by Cameron and turned up to full power by May. Neither of these are damp or jingoistic. Though they are certainly miserable in one sense of the word.

          • Phil R

            am in the process of renouncing my British citizenship and becoming an EU citizen

            YES….!

          • Reborn

            Let joy be unconfined !

          • Sargv

            I heard Bulgaria is nice. You’ll love Varna.

          • CRSM

            It has huge tourist potential, that’s for sure. (Bit cold at this time of year though…) Rural Bulgaria that is, my friends grew up near Sofia, so I know nothing of Varna).

          • DJM

            Don’t think this post will age well…….

          • Royinsouthwest

            Then get on with it!

          • Jonathan Tedd

            You’ll regret it.Oh yes.

        • PutinCooksSocks

          Grrlpower promised to leave the country for Canada if we voted for Brexit.

          We kept our side of the bargain but he is all talk and no trousers, so he’s still holed up in Britain somewhere, like a worm eating the apple from the inside, whilst it lectures the apple on how awful it tastes.

      • JabbaPapa

        Keep a stiff upper lip, sweety dearest, you’ll find it most useful for taking a nice warm pint, before heading off to a lovely afternoon of strawberry and cream at the cricket. By Jove !! How dare you expect people to omit all things British from their definitions of British culture !! Why, it’s almost as if you appreciate not a fresh cornish pasty, nor glass of single malt, nor an afternoon of excitement at the Lawn Tennis championships at Wimbledon !! What next ? Banishing fish and chips maybe ? What do you think Britishness to be ? A gaggle of starbucks-guzzling ill-dressed ne’er-do-wells swapping avocado luncheon recipes in the dirty rain of their ghastly inner city slum ? Out-doing each other in how “non-binary” they can become as they wiggle uncomfortably from the itch that’s started up again from their pubic piercings ? Incapable of focusing enough to read even the back cover of a Virginia Woolf novel from the splitting headache and double vision that all their drug taking has led them to ?

        oooo-errrr, no thanks, think I’ll stick with good old custard creams to go with my Earl Grey !!

        • Little Black Censored

          Gosh, that’s poetry!

      • Jolly Roger

        Whatever the British culture and norms are, they’ve been dressed up in a concrete overcoat.

      • Kaiser

        well for 1 its not mutilating your genitals , forcing you to wear a bin bag , killing you if i dont like the company you keep and not stoning you to death for getting raped

      • Sargv

        Can you actually define a woman, in concrete terms?

        And spare me the bullsh*t on genital-defined sex.

      • Andy

        It’s socially constructed sugar t@ts!

    • captainslugwash

      Exactly, keep diluting milk with water and soon it will not be milk.
      Education levels and cultural norms have to be a factor when accepting immigrants, as well as the rate of ‘dilution’.
      Mainstream Islam has proven itself not to be compatible with other cultures or belief systems, so the immigration of its adherents needs to be controlled accordingly.
      As Islam is not a race, we will be safe from accusations of racism won’t we?

      • RingedPlover

        Racism perhaps but not Islamophobia.

      • Shazza

        “Mainstream Islam has proven itself not to be compatible with other cultures or belief systems,”

        This is exactly what Donald Trump was doing when he retweeted the videos that were on Britain First’s website. He had no idea as to who BF are and was merely retweeting from Ann Coulter, a truly outspoken and fearless American Conservative
        but he was speaking not to the politicians/MSM but to the larger worldwide population who eagerly follow his tweets and doings and he was deliberately raising awareness of the dreadful future that we are sleepwalking towards.

        So what did the MSM/politicians do? They shot the messenger and ignored the message – massive damage control as evidenced by their fake outrage and virtue signalling bluster.

        It would actually be rather funny if it were not so shocking.

        • captainslugwash

          I think we know who the man on the street is siding with on this non-news item.
          The ability of normal people to detect bull**it is one of the few things which still gives me hope.

        • Dave S

          His audience is in places like West Texas where the Guardian is unknown and the BBC is probably a make of barbecue.

          • Shazza

            I disagree – his audience is worldwide. His message has got through to the general public in this country. The BTL comments in the Mail, Sun and even The Independent (!) are very revealing.

    • martianonlooker

      Superb comment

      • Damaris Tighe

        Thanks.

    • Shazza

      Our cherished civilisation, millennia in the making and destroyed in decades.

    • Jolly Roger

      The trendy metrosexuals who waffle on about net migration don’t see any difference between a thousand Cornish people and a thousand people from Kazakhstan. As a certain someone said, the English don’t deserve to be saved. You’ll notice that there can be ‘New Scots’ but apparently no ‘New English’.

      But Damaris, are these trendies fashioning a ‘world city’ version of Charles Williams’s London, as depicted in All Hallows Eve. That’s a sort of cross between Orwell’s 1984, purgatory and groundhog day, but without the redemption, and overseen by a Caliph?

      • Damaris Tighe

        Now, how did you guess I’m a fan of the very obscure Charles Williams?

    • Simon Platt

      I met a fellow a few months ago, county councillor standing for re-election, Indian Moslem, honestly seemed like a nice fellow, been here 50 years or more, I think he might have been born here. But … he told me, unprompted (I don’t know why; I’m sure he didn’t know me from Adam), that he aimed to serve all the communities in his council district: Moslem, Hindu, Sikh, white…

      I, too, as it happened, was hoping against hope to be elected to the County Council. I aimed to serve all the communities in the division: Woodplumpton, Broughton, Goosnargh…

      There, of course, is the problem in a nutshell.

  • grrlpower

    Britain is changing.

    Deal with it.

    • evad666

      OK, but you almost certainly will not be happy with the results.

    • Colonel Mustard

      You need to deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with the changes, which in most cases have been imposed rather than consented to.

      I wasn’t born in a state-sponsored “multicultural society” and no-one has ever been asked to give consent to turn this country into one. If you want people to deal with change then imposing it without consent and having loud-mouthed bullies like you blowing hard about it and trying to shut down any dissent is not the best approach. The opposition and resentment to it will just grow. As we have seen. The rise of far right extremism and “populism” is entirely due to people just like you. The more you attempt to turn the screw the less you will like the consequences.

      • Reborn

        I used to be a Labour Party member & some of my views are still a bit to the
        “left” of many Tories, which is why a call myself a conservative.
        We voted to get out of the Common Market all those years ago & even went to a Trafalgar Square rally addressed by Sir Derek Walker Smith & Michael Foot
        the only large political meeting we’ve ever attended.
        The leftist arguments for not being governed by a foreign power designed to maximise the profits of globalisation & a Dutch Auction of labour are obvious.
        Similarly, the leftist arguments for fearing the steady colonisation of the uk
        & Europe by Islam are overwhelming.
        Just what sort of “progressive” buys into a word of islam & its mysogyny,
        homophobia, and constant involvement in slavery?
        The Corbyn brand of “leftism” is terrifying in its implications for every aspect
        of our lives.
        Decent people of all political stripes must forget their differences & agitate,
        protest & above all, vote at every possible opportunity to keep Labour out.
        Decent Labour supporters still have Frank Field & a couple of others who
        are obviously preferable to almost anyone from any other party.

    • Andy

      How stupid would a left wing woman have to be to ignore violent islam?

      • PutinCooksSocks

        Stupid enough to be a left wing woman and believe that the people above her in the party are concerned about “equality”?

      • RobertRetyred

        Surely, handing out more teddy bears will rectify the problem.

    • JabbaPapa

      ***** grrrrrrllpowah is changing her underwear and forgot to draw the curtains !!!!! *****

      PHWWWOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR !!!!!!

    • JabbaPapa

      Census data showing a shortfall in young men certainly suggests so. If this is the case, why? Does male alienation play a part? Is there really a ‘sexodus’?

      I think they took one good hard look at grrrrlllllllpppowah and all her trendy metrosexual “friends”, and scarpered off to find some real women instead ….

  • Terry

    16% Muslim is going to be radically different from 6% in our society and let’s not pretend otherwise, especially as that 16% won’t be spread evenly throughout the country

    • Shazza

      The current 6% which we are assured is the real figure will double every decade – historical data proves this.

      Do the math as our American friends across the pond say.

  • As I commented in my response to “Lammy’s immigration lunacy”, I believe many qualified British citizens are leaving permanently. We have a brain drain in progress but the powers that be refuse to admit it.
    Locally, a neighbour has his son and family living in Singapore with no desire to come home, an elderly lady down the street tells me that her American granddaughter is coming over to visit her for a holiday; an acquaintance at church tells me he’s off to visit his son and daughter-in-law in America and discussion revealed that they are both newly qualified doctors. A friend in Australia tell us that “a lovely new English doctor” has joined the local practice and also that his wife, a nurse, did her blood tests. Another friend, a hospital laboratory technician, is now working in Perth.

    Both our daughters and their husbands have discussed emigration from time to time and we have made it clear that they shouldn’t let us stop them. All have good jobs here, but their knowledge, qualifications and experience would make them welcome elsewhere.

    Our politicians need to get in touch, they might realise what is really happening, we are exchanging some of our best who are needed here for manual workers and the like.

    • Shazza

      Rest assured, the politicians know exactly what is really happening.

      The question is why don’t they care?

      • I’m not sure that they do, I am constantly astounded by the ignorance of some of politicians. Mine should know as we live in an area where most residents have decent qualifications, but probably those from traditional working class areas are less aware of the situation.
        Why don’t they care? From the Labour point of view, it is more likely incomers will vote Labour than those leaving. For Tories in more affluent areas, their attitude is probably that of a woman that my wife spoke to whilst on the UKIP stand before the referendum who felt that she wouldn’t be able to get a nanny to look after her children following Brexit.

        • Shazza

          Of more concern is the ignorance of what is actually taking place in certain areas of the country by people living in areas which have been unaffected by non-EU migration.

          I too live in an exceptionally non-enriched coastal part of the country, very affluent (having fled a large Midlands city) and it is incredible how little they are concerned about what is happening to the rest of the UK, totally oblivious to the fate that awaits them.

          They really do not believe that what is happening in London/Birmingham etc. will ever affect them – lovely, naive people who cannot understand why there are the Tommy Robinsons, Trumps etc.

          So sad.

  • Andrew Cadman makes an excellent point regarding the need to consider gross migration figures, as well as the net figure. 572,000 people (the gross figure) arriving in the country from overseas over a 12 month period represents a significant impact on us as a nation.

    As a Christian minister I have long been troubled at how the churches have always sided with the forces of cultural Marxism and the secular Left in speaking of large-scale immigration as being only ever beneficial, and how they have always denounced as racist any who dare to question massive inward migrant flows.

    There has been a distinct failure by the churches to consider basic Biblical teaching in their rush to conform to the liberal orthodoxy. The need for nations to control their borders, however, is clearly taught in Scripture.

    In Deuteronomy 32:8 Moses tells us that the Lord ordained the independent existence of all the nations : “The most High divided to the nations their inheritance … he set the bounds of the people”. Here is God’s own stamp upon the legitimacy of national borders.

    This legitimacy is re-endorsed in the New Testament, where we read in Acts 17:26 : “(God) hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined … the bounds of their habitation”.

    For 2000 years the Lord used the nationhood of Israel as the primary factor in the unfolding of His purposes of salvation for mankind. This in itself proves that there is nothing morally inferior about nationhood.

    No one insists that African, Middle Eastern, South American and Asian nations must destroy their distinctive identity by the embracing of multiculturalism and mass migration, yet liberal secularism, along with the churches, insists that Europe must do so. Can anyone explain this inconsistency?

    Yes of course, as Christians, we love our neighbour, whoever he is and wherever he comes from, but that obligation is not remotely a justification in God’s purposes for nations to abolish sensible control of their borders.

    • Reborn

      Just imagine the BBC etc’s reaction if it emerged that Islamabad had tens of thousands
      of Christians living there & that they had their own no go areas, supported or
      ignored Christian terrorism, & even were using their own legal system that was
      totally contrary to Pakistani law.