After the appalling incidents in Charlottesville where neo-Nazis paraded through the streets and were met with counter-violence by Antifa activists and a young woman was killed, Trump condemned both sides. The BBC, along with the rest of the media, immediately plugged the prevailing anti-Trump response that he had not specifically condemned white supremacists.

The problem with Trump’s response to the attacks was not only that he did not specifically condemn white supremacists, which he should have. The people who marched with Nazi insignia are scum who have no place in a civilised society. They should have been called out at the time and condemned utterly. Trump should also have specifically condemned the left-wing violence of Antifa and BLM, which has been allowed to spread and be accepted as normal.

Political violence, whatever its source, should be condemned utterly.

The USA faces a rising tide of political violence, which is not going to get better any time soon as it has been stewing and encouraged for a decade now. That there is open violence on the streets of America should come as no surprise. During the Obama years political violence was allowed to go virtually unchecked.

The riots and looting in Ferguson after a white policeman shot a black thug was symptomatic of the automatic reaction of a growing number of people. Violence is increasingly accepted as a first response. Young people marched through Ferguson and Dallas shouting ‘Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. What do we want – dead cops. When do we want them – now’. And after Ferguson was trashed and five white Dallas policemen murdered, BLM were not held to account.

Huffington Post editorial by Jesse Bern during the 2016 election encouraged violent resistance to Trump: ‘there’s an inherent value in forestalling Trump’s normalisation. Violent resistance accomplishes this’. Bern went on to urge liberals not to ‘ignore the history of successful violent insurrection in the US’. There is no record of Bern being questioned by the police or being called out by Democratic politicians. Violence is the newly accepted norm.

Before the 2016 Presidential election, a video aired showing how Democratic operatives paid people to start fights at Trump rallies in order to create a perception of violent right wing anarchy, a tactic called ‘bird-dogging’. Wikileaks revealed that bird-dogging was approved by Hillary Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook in a July 4, 2015 email. This coincided with a DNC plan to cite ‘incidences of violence’ in order to create the perception that ‘Trump is dangerous’. Unsurprisingly violent assaults against Trump supporters rocketed. Violence was being employed by a mainstream political party as an election tool, and thus normalised.

When House Majority Whip Republican Congressman Steve Scalise was shot in June by Bernie Sanders supporter Phil Montang, an official with the Nebraska Democratic Party, was captured on audio railing: ‘I’m glad he got shot. I wish he was f—ing dead’. When his violent hatred was revealed he was fired by the party, but his outburst is indicative of the mindset and acceptance of political violence by many in the USA today.

Failed Democratic Vice-Presidential candidate Tim Kaine (VA) has tweeted, ‘Democrats have to fight in the streets against Trump’. People listen when leading politicians call for action against other politicians. Witness the scenes at Berkeley when Milo Yiannopoulos was invited to speak. Open violence and arson on the streets, the constitutional right to free speech trashed, $100,000 worth of property damage, and no repercussions from the police or university authorities. Democrat Congresswoman Val Deming (FL) even described the violent Berkeley riot as ‘a beautiful sight’, and refused to condemn the rioters.

In Charlottesville, Deputy Mayor Wes Bellamy has a history of racially-charged, sexist, angry and divisive posts on social media. His tweets included gems such as ‘I dont like whit [sic] people so I hate white snow!!! FLM!!!’, ‘I hate seeing white people in Orangeburg’, ‘White women = Devil’, ‘I tune out when white people talk in community meetings. I really need to work on that smh… “Obama shrug”’. After his Twitter outbursts went public Bellamy was forced to step down from Virginia Board of Education but continues to serve as the deputy mayor of Charlottesville, and condemn white racism.

When you spend enough time accusing everyone who merely disagrees with your politics of racism, you make the term racism meaningless. That’s what has been happening in the USA over the last decade. By the time the election came around, Hillary was defining ‘deplorable’ Trump voters as racists. When you spend enough time crying wolf, a real wolf eventually appears. A real wolf appeared in Charlottesville.

For political reasons, the Left spent a decade dismantling any meaningful definition of racism. The outcome of labelling everyone who disagreed with them a racist was to eliminate social sanctions against actual racists. And the actual racists were happy to take advantage of the new climate and march with torches.

The horror that was Charlottesville is what happens when hate and street violence become accepted as a normal part of political life. Every normalisation of extremism inevitably normalises extremism in the minds of the opposing side. When we see Neanderthals carrying Nazi insignia marching through an American university town, we realise that the Left’s chickens are coming home to roost.

The radical Left and their enablers wish to see the miniscule number of American neo-Nazis gain prominence in the minds of people as this will further polarise America. It wants to see American democratic values and norms dismantled by violence so speech with which it disagrees can be eliminated. Charlottesville is what happens when civil society fails. Those responsible for the failure throughout America are those who set the terms of public discourse; politicians, academics and the media.

(Image: Mark Dixon)


  1. “Antifa”, “Unite against fascism”, “Hope not hate”…..whoever named them certainly had a strong sense of irony….

    • A good tag line or name is essential; this is why the promotion of ‘gay’ by the homosexual activists as their preferred descriptive term was such a good idea; plays on ‘happy, light-hearted fun’ (its proper meaning) and is more ‘friendly’ sounding than homosexual.

  2. The Neanderthal Valley is near Dusseldorf and the Tour de France went along it on the first day this year. But could we skip the unhelpful stereotypes and realise that the kind of gang conflict going on is from our time, the late 20th and early 21st Century. It does have similarities to those of the past which are many and various and that is the danger. We do not see it for what it is or appreciate that if it is unchecked it is the end of democracy and the beginning of another period of human chaos.

    • Many do see it for what it is and it has begun to dawn on us REASONABLE people that the ONLY way to stop this relentless onslaught on us is by the very means to which you allude. It’s a certainty the left isn’t going pause for thought and think ‘ Have we gone too far?’ and ‘Is there another way?’. I leave you with Robert Kennedy’s observation that, “What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists, is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents”.

  3. I place the entire blame for the violence on the Antifa demonstrators. What should have been a peaceful, albeit a distasteful, demonstration was made violent by the Antifa who turned up wearing protective gear and carrying weapons.
    The US is supposed to be a country of free speech and the white supremacists had done nothing illegal up to the point when they were attacked. Yet somehow the facts are twisted so that it reads “If they hadn’t demonstrated, we wouldn’t have needed to attack them, and so it is all their fault”.
    Exactly the same happens in the UK when the BNP or EDL have a demonstration. Similar Antifa thugs turn out, and by the same convoluted thinking, the BNP or EDL gets the blame.

    I would make it clear that I don’t support any of these causes, but I am concerned by the way the news has been distorted to make the Antifa appear to be the good guys. As far as I’m concerned they are all as bad as each other.

  4. I have been around a while, a child of the Sixties, and I have observed that the race and equality movements, aided by law, have become as intolerant, in fact, more so, (to all but their political kind), sexist (towards men) and racist (towards white people) as those they once sought to counter.

    I used to do police undercover work, and I was able to observe at close quarters the attitudes of the extreme right, the left, and the ‘black’ (includes their white counterparts) agitators.

    Here are my observations:

    The black ‘agitprop’ business begins from a default position of they are always right, the others are always wrong or don’t understand they are wrong and only total assimilation of their ideology and practices is acceptable. Even where change is effected to their benefit, somehow it is never enough, or not as ‘good’ or as comprehensive had it been done for white people. This attitude is promulgated, aided, abetted by white left wing and neo-liberals; the left and more extreme left wing groups are as equally certain of their position.

    interestingly, I found that both the left and extreme left groups had overt public support by, and association with, many left wing politicians and no-one seems to find this unusual or objectionable – in public, at least; compare and contrast with the extreme, heck, even the not so extreme but slightly right of centre right and one would find the same association by a conservative or centre of politics politician, indeed, any hint of such a dalliance, and the individual is hounded into apology, and often resignation from their position.

    Working within the far right movements, it became clear (then) that the aim was not so much to further their agenda, but to defend what they had; that is a crucial difference. Of course, Islam, and the left/far left, have pushed so hard that the right, in the form of ‘AltRight’, and some nationalist movements – tellingly, all continental organisations- have been galvanised into action because they feel overwhelmed.

    Talking to far right people (at that time) I found they felt a need to be on the defensive to protect – in their view – white culture, traditions, not only for themselves but for ‘ordinary’ people at large. My feeling was they operated
    from a base line of ‘they must not be allowed to encroach any further, to denude that which is ours, to replace with alien ‘things”. Others may have different experiences of such people, but mine were experienced as one of their own kind (so they thought) so I take it they spoke honestly and earnestly.

    The other thing I found is there is no clear demarcation line between extreme left and left wing – they fuse into each other and it is often difficult to tell where the former ends and the latter begins, however, there is a gulf between those who are of a right wing disposition and the far right, in terms of actually ‘doing something about it’ activity. Again, there is a slight modification to that in recent times in that some ‘ordinary’ people have drawn their line in the sand and feel daring – and protected by numbers- enough to ride on the coat tails of the more energetic right of centre movements.

    Where does this leave us folks who are by nature tolerant, if only to the degree we do not condone, but accept, and simply want to live our lives? In my case, I find the intolerance of the left pushes me further to the right for, if not solutions, then redress and this a sentiment echoed by people I know – we have simply had enough of being told we are always to blame and we must change or accommodate.

    I have always said our tolerance, or enforced-by-law acceptance, will be our undoing, even before I had (only recently) heard of Karl Popper’s ‘Paradox of Tolerance’, which states that: “if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant”. I will leave you with that thought.

    • Those who feed off the equality and rights movements have no interest in actually achieving their goals as this will put them out of power and prominence.
      Once there goals are achieved they then move to find ever more pedantic ways of empowering themselves, eventually morphing into not just wanting equality but domination.

      • I agree, and this was proven when Soviet-led/supported/enforced communism ended and British exponents and supporters of it were left foundering for a while; whole sections monitoring with people and extreme activity were disbanded. I am on record as saying that such people will not simply go away, they will re-direct their energy to other ’causes’ and have more time to increase their activity on existing ones, and so time has proven.

        For those who aren’t aware, next time there is a report on the visual news of a left wing-inspired demonstration, especially a so-called spontaneous one, keep your eyes peeled for the professionally produced ‘Socialist Worker’s Party’ placards and banners; they are readily identifiable – if the type is not easily readable – by the red stripe atop the placard/banner. They are evident and ample at demos ranging from Arab matters to abortion.

      • Jerry Pournelle’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy (short version, “The cynics eventually drive out the idealists”) speaks to the phenomenon of “not simply declaring victory and going home.” For once you declare victory, beyond perhaps a small occupation force, you will need to demobilise your army. Political “warriors,” however, wish to keep fighting the war forever so long as it keeps the “troops” occupied, rather than occupying. Can you imagine Clement Attlee saying, “Yes, I know, the Japs HAVE surrendered, thanks to the US nuking them– but really, Harry, you should have let the war run a few years longer, as we should have liked to keep our lads in Malaya and other places, and invading the Home Islands, rather than have them in Britain grousing about rationing and the like…”?

    • I haven’t read the material via the links given, I suspect I do not have to; if my comment does not correlate with the information contained within, I apologise. In Great Britiain the left have a very effective rent-a-mob’ system. Pre-Internet, it was based on telephones and ‘runners’ doing the rounds, now, with so-called social media and mobile phones, their ability to organise and group are honed to the extreme. They can, and do, whip up thousands in a few hours for demonstrations.

      • They employ actors at up to $25/hr to give fake crowd support to anyone willing to pay. Have a look at one of the links.
        Apparently they were advertising for demonstraters for Charlotteville.

        • I know pop star’s managers used to do that to create crowds of ‘fans’ at airports, theatres and so on, but that’s new to me. Perhaps if a few of those paying were hauled up on ‘incitement to riot’ or ‘behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace’ charges it might halt that.

          • The companies literal “get out” clause was to “engage in peaceful protest.”.
            Not their fault if things got out of hand Gov.

          • Yes, the small print, but don’t clever lawyers in the U.S. often win cases, which then set precedent, on such arguments that, despite such caveats, under the tense, charged atmosphere of such a demonstration there might be a reasonable expectation that it will incite violence, especially if someone charged with such a offence was found to be one of the ‘invited’? Someone has to try it.

  5. Someone pointed out on TCW the other day that those who push immigration at all costs tend to live in posh areas, so are insulated from its undesirable knock-on effects.
    I’m sure the same applies to the above-mentioned folk who advocate, erm, “robust” action, just in case they get what they wish for and so can safely keep their heads down when the brickbats start to fly.

  6. The main aim of the march was to protest against the removal of confederate statues and for that they had a legal permit. They had also had a rally the night before and up to the point Antifa turned up there was no violence.
    Irrespective of whether you agree or disagree with those taking part in the march or the reason for the march, they had a legal right to do so and were peaceful.
    Had Antifa not turned up spoiling for a fight this would have been just another protest by a small fringe element within US politics.

  7. Where were the Police?
    That’s the question the entire western media is refusing to ask.
    The violence was entirely predictable. Somebody in authority wanted it to happen. Who called of the Police?

    • And that is exactly what scares me. I remember the 60s with all their problems clearly, and the major difference now is that the police are on orders, standing down. By doing so the respect for the police of the average man in the street is being destroyed. If it continues, anarchy to make the ‘Wild West look tame will ensue. By the way, last weekend their was a similar problem to Charlottesville in Seattle, which the police handled professionally and well. That’s why you have heard nothing about it.

      • Standing down when the violent left are concerned, but watch how they charge in when the demonstrators are perceived as right wing, or even when it is just ‘ordinary’ people exercising their democratic right to peaceful protest, as the mainly law abiding, white majority ‘Countryside Alliance’ found to their cost a few years ago in London. That opened a few working and middle class eyes, I can tell you.

        • Yep. That is what made Seattle so refreshing. The permitted demo was essentially a prayer group, which Antifas wanted to disrupt (apparently violently. The police herded them off and kept them separated, and so there was very little trouble. The police Captain in command is getting some flack but standing up well, it seems. In Virginia reports are that they all but drove the.protestors right into the left wing counter demonstration.

          • A tin glimmer of hope, then. Well done, the police captain, let us hope he isn’t another who will eventually be pressured into ‘recanting for his sins’.

  8. If you prevent people using the safety valve of speaking out, sooner or later the pressure cooker will explode.

    • Speaking out is one thing, being heard is quite another; I find it is the latter that is often batted away.

      • They are a misnomer. I suggest pro-cell glob is a more accurate description of those fanatical control freaks.

        • ‘Pro-cell glob’? Scientific, eh? Or just your term? Yet scientists would view any single cell organism, even a ‘pro-cell glob’, I suspect, found on another planet as evidence of ‘life’. What a strange world.

          • That would make poor television. How about watching a child have a baby herself because abortion is illegal in her country?

          • Except that’s so untypical of the circumstances which might lead to an abortion it would be misleading. Let’s keep it real.

          • Or one being forced to have one against her will because she believes in the sanctity of life, however arrived at?

            Your arguments are pathetic. You cannot argue that a elected procedure performed purely for selfish reasons by Western women, many of whom – in the main – are responsible for their predicament because of irresponsible, drunken, or louche behaviour can in any way be equated to that lack of choice because of religious or political dynamics in other, usually Third World, countries. The debate which we engage in is almost exclusively the property of the industrialised West, it is both pointless and rather lacking in imagination to introduce factors outside of that sphere’s influence.

            By the way, many (most?) ‘anti-abortionist’, ‘pro-life’, advocates agree that under certain conditions a abortion may be allowed – your example being one of them. Medical emergency and pregnancy by any rape is another, however, some rape victims choose to have their child, on the sensible basis it is not the child’s fault, and/or all life is sacrosanct to them, and/or it is THEIR baby and are able to mentally scoop the ‘father’ out of the bigger, more positive, picture.

          • My point is that because there are cases where abortion is required it must always remain a legal option.

          • I don’t prefer, both are your terms. Just because current law dictates that ‘life’, for abortion purposes, begins at point ‘A’ doesn’t mean it does, or that all have to accept it. I am not religious but for me ‘life’ is when the sperm fertiles the egg; one could also argue that both sperm and the unfertlised egg are ‘life’ for how can ‘life’ emerge from any completely dead thing?

            Abortion, for anything other than life saving, serious medical condition purposes, or in the case of rape, is a abomination. Does the woman really always think of her life, as opposed to that of her unborn child, the most important? Some might, I would bet many place equal importance, some perhaps even place the baby’s above their own in certain circumstances.

            The vast majority of abortions are a form of birth control; the pregnancy a result of reckless or indifferent behaviour, mostly by women, but often by men. If the woman’s, as you suggest, is the most important life, then they should take a greater responsibility in preventing unwanted pregnancies.

          • Of course the woman’s life is more important. Without the woman the pregnancy wouldn’t have happened in the first place or could not continue. Think man!

          • No, you’ve rather poorly tried to switch context in mid-stream from that in your original post. Taken at face value, though, you must acknowledge it could not happen without a man, either, so a woman must only be AS important, but not, as you contend, the, ‘quote,’ most’, or ‘more’. Maybe you need to ‘think’, man…

          • What is it that makes you imagine you should have the power to control what a woman is allowed to do with her own body? There has to be an element of compromise, and the 1967abortion act sets out that compromise.

          • You appear to be confused. Murder is an illegal non-consensual killing by a third party whereas abortion is legal up to 24 weeks. This allows time to diagnose the myriad of inherited diseases that God has invented. Check out Mucopolysaccharidosis. A delightful inherited disease that kills young children. Sometimes a number of abortions are required before an unaffected child is produced.
            I know of a woman in prison because she self aborted.

          • It used to be ‘legal’ to hang someone for stealing bread, but it was not ‘moral’, and morality should trump ill-advised legality every time.

          • Having sex is one thing, having the product of that sex in your body against your will is quite another.

  9. British people need to step back and discard the handles of ‘left and right’ – clearly they are not applicable but only to serve a media, politial agenda which desires only to sunder and destroy.

    I dislike some of the left and their viewpoint, equally they may baulk at some of my beliefs but the major concern is of course Britain which is, neither left nor right, there is only common sense reality set against: the new order – a netherworld of political fantasy.
    Britain becomes Dystopia, spun on a rickety frame of lies, in a weft of delusion and granting false hope based on funny money and always some threat of a distant calamity IF ‘we’ don’t conform …………………to save the planet from mankind themselves and Malthus would so approve it.

    ‘what we’ve got here’………………….

    There is no redress, there is no say in it, democracy has been usurped by an elite who have absolutely no intention of ever allowing the reins of Kratos to be placed in the hands of the Demos.

    This current ongong confrontation between ‘left versus right’ is a deliberateliy sparked conflagration straight from the play book of Alinsky, victimhood pleas, twitching minority politics and the relentless unceasing moaning chorus it begets.

    Cripes, what is galling though, the political claque only can find the ‘truth seekers’ [even Sarah Champion]…….. in their sights and just like in Germany or France money is funnelled towards Fascist groups veiled, under the guise of the lett wing banners, done, to cause violent mayhem be it in a cake bakery, on an exploratory fracking site, tory MPs office, charging into council offices [not that they should be so protected] Division, ethnic tensions ‘wind ’em up’…………. the nation spirals down and those who sit on the opposition benches nod in tacit approval, even the other lot couldn’t wait to throw all opprobrium at Donald Trump – any excuse eh Theresa and it plays so very well in Berlin, Paris, NYC and Tehran.

    Hillary Clinton spiking DJT’s public audiences – no surprise, Obama sowing discontent and loving it – you betcha. And underneath, in the US and more so here, the other enemy is rising and it comes out of the east.

    We are caught in the classic triple Acies and the horns will enclose and vanquish indigenous six and a half thousands years of rise, settlement and betterment, leading to our Anglo Saxon Renaissance, then subjugation, a Reformation, counter Reformation civil wars and where knowledge and erudition finally thank God won out in the Enlightenment – war, barbarity will snuff it’s enlightened flame and us in the process.

    • Quite agree, this is not about left and right. That is a red herring.
      This is about the establishment corporate globalist cabal extending power and control deep into everyone’s lives.

      • Exactly, we really must try harder to see through it and that’s the hard part persuading people and to that end, we/me/us and I mean all of us: should tone down the rhetoric and dwell far more on our similarities and likes rather than our differences – because that is what ‘they’ want us NOT to do…………….and being a contrary type…………………..rebel but not rebellion unless, the final resort, ‘we are called’.

        • Desirable, but naive. The reasonable person says to the fanatic: “I’ll put down my gun if you promise to then put down yours”. What do you think happens next? Clue: it starts with ‘b’ and ends with ‘ang’. We are eventually going to have to roll up our sleeves and fight that which menaces and seeks to subjugate and control us – or capitulate completely, but even then, someone will in time say: enough is enough – I am Spartacus…. History teaches us this.

          • “naive”, we dance a masquerade ballet and then ameliorated maybe, adjusted to suit I have to cloak my thoughts and emotions.

      • That’s still ‘left and right’; off the top of my head: Zuckerberg, Sundar Pichai (Google) – left; Trump, Cheney – right. Slice it anyway you like, there is always a streak of politics running through any global empire, that’s why politicians and businessmen court one another, but usually it’s the ‘left’ variety that seek to inflict their influence on people – I offer the recent sacking of the Google employee as a example of their wrath if one goes ‘off message’.

    • “British people need to step back and discard the handles of ‘left and right'”. ‘Handles’ or the actually philosophies and beliefs? Hmm, surely a ‘rose by any other name is still a rose’? I infer from some of what you say that it is better if the ‘middle ground’, not extreme either way, holds, but who decides what constitutes the ‘middle ground’? Us ‘middlers’? Yes, good idea, but wait, we have the opportunity to do that already, through voting – and then ‘we’ (not I, I might add) repeatedly, in a ‘turkey/Christmas sense, vote for those same ‘left’ and ‘rights’, despite many not fully agreeing with their policies and aims. We should raila gainst political correctness and ‘positive discrimination’ at work,where such protest would be meaningful, but ‘we’ (I have done) do not. Why not? (I know why).

      Will equality ever be achieved to the satisfaction of those who bang the drum over it? Does equality in their sense mean that certain such types who do – blacks, women – have to be more ‘equal’, in reality, privileged, than others to simply to ‘feel’ equal? Even if given what they view as ‘equal’ status in all, what will be the reality, the realpolitik of society functioning through the imperfect human? I am reminded of the joke about the southern U.S. states in the 60s after the ‘bus’ episode; authorities decided all people would be labelled ‘green’ in colour. The bus draws up, and the driver shouts, “Dark green to the back, light green to the front’.

      • I do not see a way out.

        Aye to direct democracy – but how? And all I have to offer are, more questions.

        i would like to have some say on where the money which is taken from us – have a say in; where when, how and to whom it goes – by annual plebiscite and how and werewithal to do that is the question.
        I despise the party political system, livlabcon, I want my representative as far as possible to represent my constituency and that is again open to interpretation when, how, where does Country and nationwide priorities transcend local necessity?
        The legislature and the executive need to be separated, again – how can that be achieved?

        Finally there will be a bloc vote dominating all else, it is like a crysalis monster pupa – growing, metamorphosing and it will devour what ever thread and weave of political system people’s culture and tradition that went before. To, rapaciously consume all that went before and in its place there will only be moths and more moths fluttering, beholden, enslaved round the remorseless flame burning, consecrated lantern dedicated on a cult of perpetual thralldom, to blind obedience and on pain of death to all unbelievers.

        Future? it might be accorded, that, we have none.

        • I’m afraid that ‘direct democracy’ in my eyes translates as only one thing: direct action to achieve that democracy one wishes for, and ‘direct action’ taken to its ultimate phase is violence. I can’t think of a single instance in history where a put-upon minority, or in this case majority, have not ultimately had to resort to some form of organised violence to achieve their aims.

          • Oh undoubtedly ‘violence’ – eventually it will come to that and for any number of reasons, the gases build in the magma chamber of people’s minds and when the pressure is too great, there is only one possible action. Action of, implosion then an enormous frenzied eruption of pent up anger and venting frustration. People’s natural tendency to inertia added to our elective dictatorship and multcult, Political Correctness are parts of the cap which seals the caldera, though the pent up anger and stresses just builds and builds and that cap: cannot hold for much longer.

      • The problem is the middle has inexorably been moving leftwards as the indoctrination via universities continues to infiltrate every nook and cranny of the establishment. Career politicians naturally lean left as the bribe mentality of leftwing policies and the toxic PC atmosphere if you commit wrong speech/think, is a much easier path and puts you in the new ruling political class.

  10. There are many statues of slave-owners and slave-traders in Britain. But unless I am very much mistaken, there is none of either George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. Nor is any park in this country named after either of them. The issue is not slavery, but treason. By all means, let notable examples of the sculptor’s art be displayed in museums, even if they do depict Robert E. Lee. But it is astonishing that such a statue ever stood in the public square of a part of the American Republic, or that any park there was ever named either after him or after Andrew “Stonewall” Jackson. The issue is not slavery, but treason.

    • really? so 150 years later, a section of the American public have become enraged by the activity of treason related to the Civil War? mmmmnn….
      I’m not convinced.

      • Lee’s loyalty was indeed to Virginia, and he deeply deplored the situation he ended up in, but he did his duty as he was given to see it. That’s one of the reasons that I deeply admire him.

        Harley Quin is exactly right, the two groups are twins, both of the totalitarian variety, and not American at all. I believe there may well be a statue of Washington in England, at his family’s ancestral home, if I remember correctly in Suffolk. Seems appropriate since George III called him the greatest man in the world.

        • Re: Lee. ‘Royinsouthwest’ wrote of Oliver Cromwell, whom you may or may not know suffered a similar dilemma over England. Of course, you can’t get the numpties and history revisionists to see that, in both cases all they want to see is a genocidal maniac they can sling mud at.

          • Indeed, I wrote so in another forum on ‘TCW’ yesterday, and to be accurate, at the commencement of the Restoration, Cromwell’s body was dug up, hanged, and then decapitated.

            In addition, unlike Lee and company, Cromwell/the Parliamentarians do differ somewhat in that they did achieve their longer political aim, to hold the monarchy to account and have Parliament as the pre-eminent democratic power. Royal prerogative was never the same again, it was neutered.

            In my view – notwithstanding the tour de force that was Cromwell – it was only the lack of confidence in themselves and the nation at large that led to the Restoration, and that the uselessness of Cromwell’s heir, Richard, nurtured that longing for order and familiarity.

            The Crown got lucky in Charles the Second, he had charisma and the nous his father lacked, so the momentum was maintained.

            Yes, the Interregnum and Puritanism had its faults, but had the politicians and the public – who had little say in it, I accept – stuck with a republic, I believe over the years the religious aspect would have waned with successive new leaders and ideas. Unfortunately, the then public – ill-educated, voteless, as it was – secretly hankered to be led by the nose at almost any price – and that applies equally as much today to our educated, voting public, too.

            Anyone interested in reading a balanced view of Cromwell could do worse than read the excellent ‘Cromwell: Our Chief of Men’ by (Lady) Antonia Fraser.

          • Oh, I forgot to add, it was the raising of Parliament to pre-eminance that ensured Cromwell (eventually) got his statue from a grateful Parliament.

    • Lee’s loyalty lay with Virginia. It is ridiculous to describe him as a traitor. Which side were the “traitors” in the English Civil War? Those who supported the King or those who supported Parliament?

      • Agreed. I think no historical knowledge is better than a little, because a little tends to tempt people into areas where they are immediately out of their depth.

    • By that post alone, you seem to show a ignorance detrimental to your argument of pre-civil war U.S.A, the legalities involved, and much else.

  11. F Roger Devlin has written a good account of the anti-racism culture on the Occidental Observer website (extract below):

    “Like the Soviet Union of yore, contemporary America is in the grip of an ideology, a system of ideas not derived from any empirical study of the world around us, but which provides an account of the world, establishes an aim to be pursued and rules for pursuing it, and (most importantly) legitimates the power of some men over others. Another essential element of any ideology, as of any religion, is its demonology—an account of the enemy whom adherents must forever struggle against. Unlike personal enmities which arise through concrete social interaction, ideological enmities are established a priori by the ideology itself……Ritual denunciation of designated enemies is an essential aspect of ideological rule, and leaders of an ideological regime cannot be considered legitimate without periodically making them.”

  12. As I see it, the C-vile incident consisted of two kinds of violent leftists, the national socialists and the international varieties, coming to blows.

    Internecine violence between socialist factions has a long history. Street battles between the nutzis and the reds; Stalin and Trotsky….

    It is too often forgotten that Nutzi race theories were part and parcel of the eugenics movement sponsored by leftists such as George Bernard Shaw and HG Wells.

    That in turn owed something to the ‘Age of Reason’ with the views of Enlightenment figures like David Hume and Immanuel Kant.

        • I realised that it wasn’t two groups of lefties fighting. Harley imagines it was. I bet he imagines there is a God thingy too.

          • Very likely. But it doesn’t mean all Trump supporters are Nazis. We cannot tar everyone with the same brush.
            Same with those on the political left; as Trump himself said, there are decent people there too. But you won’t find them among the extremist activists. There is at least as much, probably more, violence among them than you’ll see among the rightwingers. We’ve seen enough of it in their protests and demonstrations over the past few years.
            But they seem to think that right-wing violence is evil, whereas their own violence is justified because they believe their cause is just. They are the new Fascists.

          • The Left has rioted in the USA for years. Rioting on university campuses when right wing or non- PC people such as Ann Coulter, Milo Yiannopoulos and Charles Murray have been due to be present has resulted in injury and $ 100,000s worth of damage.

            The Black Lives Matter movement has been a vehicle for leftism and an excuse for widespread violence.

            Democratic Party officials have been identified as encouraging violence at Trump rallies during the election period in an attempt to get the public to link violence to Trump.

            It now transpires that a leader of the far right at C- Ville was, just a year ago, a far- left activist. Very curious.

          • Extreme Lefties and righties are a pain. But it wasn’t a lefty that murdered a woman with his car now, was it?

          • They shot a Republican Congress leader ( still in hospital) and murdered 5 policemen. That’s just for starters.

  13. Meanwhile 30 people were shot in Chicago during that same weekend, the gang problem there is beyond belief, worse than Iraq, and it’s reported nowhere. You’d think some people would be protesting that, except it’s a bastion of supposed liberal values/success and moreover it’s a problem and can’t be solved with a Facebook poll or making cheap memes about the Klan or the Nazis.

    My cartoon on Charlottesville and the week

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