‘Brexit saved thanks to DUP’ came Jacob Rees-Mogg’s exuberant tweet last Tuesday. Since then his Twitter account has gone strangely silent. Where’s the dismay to match the disappointment?

For after that his dear leader and her ‘soft Brexit’ acolytes secured their so-called Brexit deal by strong-arming Arlene Foster into submission with the threat of a Corbyn government.


As a result we are committed to ‘regulatory alignment’, which in plain English means paying not to leave, paying not to be a member but paying to be shackled, as Andrew Cadman describes the United Kingdom’s new vassal status elsewhere on the TCW site today, to a corrupt EU and with all our bargaining chips handed over.



And for what reason? Nominally to protect a 300-mile border with the Irish Republic from going ‘hard’, to allow the 5 per cent of Northern Ireland trade that goes across it to be unhampered, though, as the head of HMRC has insisted (despite huge Remainer pressure on him to say otherwise), since this can easily be managed electronically (as is the case between Norway and Sweden’s significantly longer border), Brexit incurs no need for a hard border or for reinstated security checks that the BBC says would threaten the Good Friday agreement.

So, given this (and former Northern Ireland Secretary Owen Paterson has spelled it out for them more than once), how come Mrs May and her pusillanimous negotiating team tripped so easily into the EU’s Eire trap? Well, one can only conclude that they fell for it, just as the BBC had fallen for it in preceding weeks, willingly and knowingly.

You can read Fintan O’Toole of the Irish Times celebrating the scale of this Irish/EU victory here. As he makes clear, they have scuppered Brexit. The UK will have to leave the EU on the same terms as Northern Ireland, making it very likely, O’Toole concludes, that we will not leave at all:

‘Let’s not understate the import of what Ireland has just achieved. It has not just secured an outcome that minimises the damage of Brexit on this island. It has radically altered the trajectory of Brexit itself, pushing that crazy careering vehicle away from its path towards the cliff edge.

‘This saga has taken many strange turns, but this is the strangest of all: after one of the most fraught fortnights in the recent history of Anglo-Irish relations, Ireland has just done Britain a favour of historic dimensions. It has saved it from the madness of a hard Brexit. There is a great irony here: the problem that the Brexiteers most relentlessly ignored has come to determine the entire shape of their project. By standing firm against their attempts to bully, cajole and blame it, Ireland has shifted Brexit towards a soft outcome. It is now far more likely that Britain will stay in the customs union and the single market. It is also more likely that Brexit will not in fact happen.’

I am sure he is right in his final analysis (conclusion).

Any members of the Tory party who pretend the case is otherwise are simply deceiving themselves, doing a gross disservice to democracy and to the majority of Brits who voted for freedom. I write this with Jacob Rees-Mogg in mind. I am told he has said he can live with the deal.

If this is the case, it is immensely disappointing that we do not have even one politician who is capable of standing by his principles, standing up to his party or, like Churchill in the wilderness years, prepared to defend democracy and the truth whatever the risk to his political career.

So I would put it to you, Jacob: can you really live with yourself? Would not making your way to the cross-benches be the more honourable alternative? Or are you are no different from the rest when push comes to shove?

176 COMMENTS

  1. I don’t think that the facilitation of regulatory alignment for those businesses wishing to engage in cross-border trade to the EU is the same thing as “staying in the customs union and the single market“.

    • I agree,
      Also the problem for the past few decades has been that UK civil servants will take 6 pages of an EU directive and change it into 90 pages of regulations.
      Nobody else in the EU has been so idiotically Puritan in following the rules.
      In areas like food production, animal welfare, health and safety etc we already have a much higher regulatory threshold anyway.

      • HM Civil Service guide to Eurospeak:

        Divorce Bill = We’re not married, but we’re giving them £40 billion anyway, for
        nothing.

        Our obligations = EU blackmail

        Our legal and moral obligations = EU blackmail plus a smiley face

        Regulatory alignment = All EU laws still in operation. Lots of jobs for UK civil
        servants.

        Regulatory convergence = All future EU laws will be implemented. Lots & lots more jobs for us.

        Irish border = Surrender, but who cares, it’s a long way from Whitehall.

        ECJ = Our permanent overlords. Magna Carta to be shredded.

        ECHR = Keeps the lawyers happy, too.

        Drinks all round at the Civil Service Club. The bar tab is on the British taxpayer.

    • Seems like a perfectly reasonable position: if you want to sell to the EU, the products have to meet the EU’s standards. The main issue is getting to the point where we don’t need all products to be inspected on the border. I’m sure HM inspectors will be quite capable of applying a different checklist to a product if it’s to be shipped elsewhere. Likewise, we don’t currently have any need to insist on special UK standards for goods brought in from the EU, so no need for us to inspect on the reverse either.

  2. The Tory right’s odd loyalty to the completely defunct Tory name that despises them and their views and sees them as just useful idiots to vote through their policy is completely baffling. When will they finally realise that the Conservative Party is a fraud?

    • Probably nothing more than a dainty lace hanky.
      If JRM cared for us rather than his party he’d speak for us.
      So far, while May has surrendered on every aspect when all she need do is walk away, he has been silent.
      This is a moment, as in 1940, when someone must speak for England.
      But we were English in those days and someone did.
      Dilettantes with bon mots up their sleeves are not what we need at the moment.

  3. The problem is that the so-called Tory Party is all that the electorate will allow to achieve Brexit . Jacob Rees-Mogg would achieve nothing by becoming an Independent MP. The only real danger to the Government comes from it’s own diehard “remainers” , Grieve , Morgan ,Soubry , Clarke etc and whatever needs to be done to keep them away from outright betrayal , must be done . Once we are actually out of the EU , things can change but until then , let the EU and the Irish Government claim whatever they want . In the end , if we are truly out , we can do what we like and if they don’t like it , tough !

    • JRM’s opportunity to affect this betrayal would be to bring the treachery into the public consciousness.
      May has been allowed to betray us by conceding everything to Brussels because no-one on the Tory side dares mention the word betrayal.
      A by-election would uncork the word and then May would have to explain why she is giving our country back to the EU.

  4. When he was under attack from the media for what he said about abortion and “gay marriage” ,he said that May is the best person to lead the Party.

    To me, anyone who can even bring himself to say that, is, no matter how excellent on some things, not entirely trustworthy.

  5. There is of course another explanation of last weeks events. That is that the EU realised that it had allowed Varadkar to get over excited,

    Varadker did that in the context of chaotic Irish politics. For a moment or two the EU improved his virility. The real issue for Ireland is that its best interests would be in leaving the EU itself and joining the UK outside. Some people in Ireland understand that. The EU foes not want too many more there to get it.

    The EU realised or perceived, that May was being made dangerously vulnerable by Irish and EU antics,might fall and a more robust new Tory Leader might lead the UK out of the EU with no trade talks. The so called “cliff edge”. Worse as the EU sees it, the UK could be pushed into the chaos for the world of a hard left socialist government under Corbyn.

    The EU blinked because it does not want the chaos for everyone that would follow no deal, neither should we. Both sides have an overwhelming interest in a mutually advantageous transition, that is why the EU removed its block on progress.

    THAT analysis is also no doubt why JRM has said so little, he understands, even if many commentators do not. JRM is one of the shrewdest minds in politics.

    It was plain from what DD said yesterday that he also understands.

  6. Borders are hard when one or both nations enforce them. We should have committed from the outset to unilaterally observe the common travel area and make it clear that even in the event of a no-deal scenario, we would not be policing the border. Goods are largely manageable, and while there is a danger of the NI border becoming a vector for illegal immigration, three significant points need to be considered: (a) any migrant would need to get to Ireland first (presumably after passing through the EU); (b) they are only likely to get into NI, and not the rest of GB since you need identification papers to travel on planes or boats (and so would be picked up), and (c) post-EU we are able to deal with many of the “pull” factors which might make illegal migration to the UK attractive.

    If we hold to those things, accepting that there will be collateral migration and smuggling issues, then the only way there will be a hard border will be if Ireland enforces it. Ireland insists it doesn’t want a hard border. The UK has been consistent that it doesn’t either. All the political parties in the North don’t want a hard border.

    So who does? Ah yes, the EU, in the event that they don’t get their way. No; push this back onto Brussels: the only hard border will be the one they require Ireland to erect.

    • The Uk has always said its ambition was/is to maintain the common travel area and the special rights of Irish citizens in the UK.

      • I think there needs to be more clear messaging about who the bad guys are here. I don’t actually blame Varadkar for using the situation as he has: Ireland has its own troubled relationship with the EU (two rejected treaties: “vote again”; EU-imposed austerity without recourse to the Dail; and the most recent meddling in their tax law), and generally Brussels has regarded the Irish as “ungrateful bastards” whenever they’ve kicked up a fuss.

        It’s clear that Brussels wants to use Ireland to maximise the pain inflicted on the UK, which enables Varadkar to achieve two things: rattle the sabre at the English, and gain nice tweets from Juncker et al to the effect that “we’re all Irish”. Both of which help to finesse the EU-Ireland relationship (for now).

        That’s why it’s critical to be as unilaterally conciliatory to the Irish as possible, and not as part of negotiations. Make it clear we regard them as having a special relationship with us, even if Brussels is pathologically incapable of allowing internal deviation. The control-freakery of Brussels needs to be brought front and centre.

        • I agree.

          I believe that last week Brussels last week realised it had allowed Varadkar too much rope.

          The one nation that suffers most from no EU/UK arrangements is Ireland.

          No deal and the Irish will be TOLD by the EU to erect a hard border, they will not have choice. The Irish antics last week in fact made their dreaded hard border, more, not less likely.

          The Border can work much as the Head of HMRC and DD have suggested using an extension of the Authorised Economic Operator Scheme, the UK and the Republic should work together to reconcile Excise rates too, to reduce the incidence of cross border shopping and smuggling.

        • Excellent post – the EU has been playing Ireland like a fiddle for the last couple of months over the border. The hubris of the Finton O’Toole article and Varadkar himself will only last as long as the EU allows it to, when Ireland will return to being an obedient vassal state.
          I’m perfectly happy with maintaining the CTA and our relationship with the R of I, but once the gloating recedes, Ireland will realise what a dirty game the EU has played.

    • We should have committed from the outset to unilaterally observe the common travel area and make it clear that even in the event of a no-deal scenario, we would not be policing the border

      That would have constituted an extremely poor negociating position.

      • Yes in the sense of the formal negotiations: but not in terms of the wider global positioning. We need to ensure that we are widely perceived as being the most reasonable party, not for the sake of the EU but the wider world. Without being optimistic about the potential of the present government to deliver this: I remain convinced that we could formulate a long term position as the shelter of choice from the worst excesses of EU bureaucracy.

        Right now everyone is talking about London to Frankfurt moves. Come the next Euro crisis, a strategically positioned UK with a competitive legal regime is going to be a very different prospect by comparison.

        • We need to ensure that we are widely perceived as being the most reasonable party

          What would be the actual point of doing that, prior to about March 2019 ?

          I’m sure that most reasonable people are simply waiting to see how things turn out, rather than committing to strategies or tactics based on unknowns or propaganda.

  7. I would council caution. JRM would achieve nothing by jumping ship at this point. Timing is everything and the hand that wields the knife shall never (well, very rarely) wear the crown.

    I suspect the Conservative party could implode at the next GE and a realignment at that point might be possible. JRM needs to play the long game. Visible disloyalty at this point would achieve nothing. |He needs to continue to build his base and his profile. His time could yet come.

    • When would you suggest would be a suitable moment for him to bring the words ‘betrayal’ and ‘treachery’ into the political consciousness?
      Six months after the £60billion cheque is cashed?

        • I was once a member of the “Conservative Christian Fellowship”

          Whilst I do believe that its original intention was to be a two way bridge between Christians and the Conservative Party, I later began to believe that it had changed and had become a one-way bridge whose intention was to encourage Christians to support the Conservative Party and was less interested in encouraging the Conservative Party to be Christian.

          Same thing I think.

    • Thank you for that link. Steve Baker was excellent, so also was Chris Montgomery on what really happened with the Irish Prime Minister. It was a vivid reminder of how hectoring and rude Jo Coburn can be and how repellent Polly Toynbee is.

  8. Jacob Rees-Mogg opposes a woman’s right to choose.

    Yes, you heard me.

    There is no place in modern British politics for religious hard-liners like him.

    • Jacob Rees-Mogg opposes the notion that willful manslaughter can be “justified” for the purposes of sexual gratification alone.

      • I’ve had over 10 abortions.

        Why do some unreconstructed males find this so hard to deal with?

        For example, when I went to my former GP (a white male in his 50s) to get my 10th abortion, he was so judgemental I totally lost my temper.

        He told me I was having too many abortions. He was basically trying to slut-shame me. I screamed at him, he wasn’t expecting that. Typical arrogant middle-aged male who grew up in a world where women were supposed to be quiet when men talked and not question male authority.

        Anyway, I made an official complaint against him to the General Medical Council and sued him for good measure. Unfortunately I lost both cases, but he took early retirement because of the stress and got replaced by a female doctor who is much better.

        Another victory over the patriarchy, and another man who will think twice before trying to exert authority over women 🙂

        • “I’ve had over 10 abortions”

          like it’s some competition – the equivalent to to a wall pissing contest?

          you need to see a head doctor or get some advice on safe sex, but in any case you really should seek psychiatric help.

          • Possibly in the Guardian or on the BBC, where anyone not sharing the ‘values’ of the Elite is suffering from some “-phobia”.

          • Any mention of abortion on a site like this always riles and excites the fundies as blood in the water does sharks.

          • It’s an easy way to spot the colonel blimp frothers who haven’t taken their ACE inhibitors before coming on this site.
            Although personally, whilst not against abortion, I think the pendulum has swung a bit too far where we are so concerned about the woman’s rights that the child’s “right” to a life is almost treated as disposable, and that’s concerning.

          • What about the mothers actual right to life ? The foetus is only a potential child, not an actual one. Therefore, to force the mother to have the baby is to sacrifice the actual to the potential.

            Having said all that, abortion shouldn’t be undertaken lightly and I suspect there are few women who do.

            Pro-birth religious people, which includes many conservatives, want to return to a time of rules where sex was not permitted outside marriage because we are all deterministic animals.

            The left, on the other hand, think that everything and anything sexual should be acceptable precisely because we are all deterministic animals.

          • I think we’re pretty much on the same hymn sheet if you pardon the religious pun. I’m not totally against abortion unlike many people on here and there are times when there are very good reasons. But I agree with you that it seems to be taken way too lightly these days.
            I have no problem with sex before marriage (it would be very hypocritical of me if I did) and believe it’s probably a good thing, but I completely endorse the need for personal responsibility and also appreciate and encourage being able to settle down and raise a stable family.

          • The ‘too lightly’ is really a commentary on the fact that anyone can demand one and somebody else is forced to pick up the bill. There would be far fewer abortions if people had to pay for it themselves. This would be a good thing.

          • I disagree with most everything you say, but on this point I can only concur.

            Unfortunately lefty fundies are of the opposite that everything physical should be permissible except owning property. It’s alright in the lefty fundamentalist mindset that someone can demand an abortion, but not that they should pay for it.

          • It’s definitely a deliberately provocative internet troll account, but as someone else has pointed out, it’s still worthwhile to keep on responding to it.

        • I do hope grrrrlpowah’s so-important bold-text post wasn’t a parody.

          ‘… he was so judgemental, I totally lost my temper’. Like, totally.

          Thanks for pointing out the male doctor’s ethnicity and age, before adding the glorious ‘Typical arrogant middle-aged male’. Not at all judgemental or bigoted, then.

          You didn’t like him raising objections to your lifestyle, so you tried to get him sacked – this failed but you glory in the stress you caused him and feel good about yourself because you got what you wanted.

          Ever been diagnosed with NPD?

          • Hello comrade Lefty! I am – literally! – amazed that nobody else except you and me can see this and haven’t joined in with the frothing rabble.

          • I had always regarded this poster as being completely insane, and have rarely felt the need to respond, though unusually I did today.

            There are a few people who I find offensive, and lots who I disagree with, and about 3/4 from various places who I have blocked.

            But I haven’t come across anything like this one anywhere else.

            Perhaps you are right.

          • Hello, Friend Bik! Apologies for the tardiness of my reply. Yes, it does seem a pretty obvious parody. Although, to be fair, some Leftists are so utterly barking these days, it’s not completely impossible that this person is being serious.

        • I’ve had over 10 abortions

          If so, then you are a serial killer.

          He told me I was having too many abortions. He was basically trying to slut-shame me

          Supposing that this story were true, more likely he was trying to tell you that engaging in the serial manslaughter of your unborn is an extremely dangerous and life-threatening practice.

          • Overblown nonsense. Abortion is legal when carried out by medical professionals before the sixteenth week of pregnancy. Distorting the truth does your side of the argument great harm and makes you personally look dishonest and foolish.

          • Abortion is legal

            Actually, no it isn’t, not in the UK — there is simply an arrangement whereby criminal charges are not brought to bear under certain particular circumstances, BTW routinely abused by abortionists and the women who seek their compliance.

          • On the Continent “our EU partners” unsurprisingly
            mainly follow the old rule of the Roman Catholic Church.
            Abortion on demand up to 12 weeks.
            Seems humane & practical to me.
            The obscenity in the UK is that we allow abortions to Third World
            savages who expect female children.
            That puts the UK on their depraved level & shames us all.

        • Are you incapable of using birth control? So much choice these days, it’s not difficult. You are an idiot to treat your own health so flippantly.

        • Have you heard of contraception? Perhaps that was what your ‘white male in his 50s’ GP was trying to tell you while you were ‘screaming’ at him. There may after all be sound medical reasons for not having lots of abortions.

          One or two abortions might have been due to misfortune, ten really points at something else.

      • He does however support welfare cuts to the needy plunging the children of such people into difficulty, cold and hunger. Rees-Mogg seems to care about the health of the foetus than that of those already born.

    • Is a womans right to choose valid when globalists exploit their sexuality by providing puppets such as Macron and Trudeau knowing that women will vote for them because they are hot?

        • SJW retards would have voted for them. Probably some gays too.

          But you are neglecting to recognise how women’s sexuality is exploited by psychopaths. If men were presented with a good looking woman in an election, despite lack of credibility and experience, women would call men out on this. Why give women a pass? Why are you making the psychopath’s job easier by not questioning their tactics?

          • Women are just as capable of rational thought as men. I don’t care who calls who out, those sort of people are mindless idiots.

          • Some women yes. Most women no. There are some very smart and capable women but again you are defending the psychopaths actions by refusing to acknowledge what the issue is here. They are elevating women for a reason and not being able to criticise women plays into the globalists hands as they have indoctrinated men and women that any criticism, however mild, is sexist or misogynist or whatever weasel words they use to emotionally manipulate for their depopulation agenda. Its exactly the same as not being able to criticise gays or Muslims, as they are their proxies to destroy Western society.

            On a site such as this you really ought to know better.

          • Some women and men are rational operators. The rest are not. Irrational behaviour and emotionalism is equally spread amongst both genders.

            Collectivists use tribalism to create an opportunity to rule, ironically, through division.

            Western ‘society’ is what exactly ?

            Western civilisation is something, but I find few that understand what it is, how it came about, or why it should be preserved.

            Muslims are not a threat to western civilisation, the threat is our own ignorance of western civilisation.

    • No, JRM says emphatically this is what I believe in all conscience, he never seeks to impose his viewpoint and in that, is, the very antithesis to certain other monotheistic creeds and to whom the left egregiously panders.

        • Murder doesn’t and hasn’t required British law to be murder, it has been around a lot longer than British law, in fact since man has inhabited the earth.

    • “There is no place in modern British politics for religious hard-liners like him.”

      so:

      1/ You are opposed to Sharia law;

      2/ You are opposed to all devout Muslim politicians.

      Are you as vocal about (1) and (2) above as you are about Catholic politicians? If not, why not?

    • He is right, take it from someone who knows and regrets.in most circumstances it is not through violent rape which I would say is different.

    • “Aborted baby parts traffickers hit with $7.8 million lawsuit settlement.”

      That would be the same choice, in the same industry of death that led to this wonderful recent development in the US for the transport company hauling body parts from the human abattoirs you aggressively support.

      PS I didn’t hear you, thank goodness. In case you didn’t know the internet thread doesn’t talk – it’s the voices parroting on your reprehensible ideologically addled mind.

  9. Rees-Mogg is establishment to a tee. He would never betray the club he is part of and I suggest his role was to provide a glimmer of hope to the Leavers and not make the betrayal too obvious. Rather like Farage’s decision to quit just when the real work was needed.

    • Farage is still an MEP and a EU parliamentary voice. He (nor any of the Leavers) were in a position to weild power. We weren’t voting for a political party during the EU referendum.

      • So why did he quit after the referendum? Even my sources were telling me before the vote that this betrayal will happen in this manner. If I knew how on earth did he not, unless of course he was told to stand down.

        • Yes, I wonder the same. As I heard that someone exiting a vote leave office were saying that Cameron would resign and Theresa May would become PM.

        • His choice to quit has no bearing on Brexit: he was never in a position of power to negotiate. He has no “real work” to do as UKIP doesn’t have any sway in the HoC.

          On a conspiracy theory note; I strongly suspect his standing down from leadership after the referendum is linked to his having lunch with Rupert Murdoch.

    • If JRM were to betray the party, he would never become PM….and could never save this country. He’s the only one who can.

      • I just think they provide us with these false Messiahs to give us hope. To be honest, I havent followed him much as mass defection from the cultural Marxist Tories is what I think is our best bet, as people see through the deception.

  10. I like Rees-Mogg. I don’t agree with a lot of his views, but he has real style, and his unfailing politness should be a model for others. I can not detect any ambition in him to lead the Conservative party. Who can blame him?

  11. I’ve made my point about the tories on another thread.

    Though, suffice to say, nothing but nothing is signed up to – yet. I don’t doubt that the EU will seek to stitch Britain up in a funnel web of deceits and lies but then surely Mr. David Davis recognizes that and fully. I abhor the prejudice and writ of the ECJ and that is what we most need to remove from the shores of Britain – EUro jurisdiction ECHR/ECJ (the distinction is a Jesuitic nicety) – until that malignancy is effaced, properly cut out of the British system we’ll never be free.

    Maybe theresa is mrs Machiavelli, maybe Jacob knows something to which we are not party to, I’ll not have a go at the Moggster – until.

    • Unless and until the UK should decide to leave the 47 Member State Council of Europe, the ECHR will continue to have jurisdiction in Britain concerning matters belonging to its own legal competence (which is nevertheless lesser in countries that are not also EU Member States).

      As for the ECJ, it is hardly surprising legally that it should maintain some degree of competence regarding affairs pertinent to Britain’s past and still ongoing relationships regarding the EC, EEC, and EU, but the degree to which that competence shall extend will not, under the principles of either UK or EU Law, be determined beforehand entirely by Legal Treaty, but through Case Law as it may unfold, given that both systems are governed a posteriori by Case Law rather than by Napoleonic-style a priori universal principles.

    • I’d like JRM to get on with it. The proof is in the pudding, so until he does get on with it, I will have a go at him.

    • Your restraint is surprising. I will wait to view the other thread. Surely JRM should have put in part of an oar?

          • As an atheist former Catholic whose nearest and dearest are all enthusiastic communicants of that faith, even I sometimes struggle to recognise these characteristics attributed to Catholicism.

          • Well, it’s true that there is a certain kind of priggish intellectualised cultural Catholicism having somewhat little to do with the Spiritual Faith as such.

            But I cannot see that the Mogg has such flaws.

          • Just stating the obvious in point of fact. I personally know several social conservatives who are not Catholic and some who are not religious at all.

          • You have still not convinced me that you derive these tedious, factious opinions from reading the mind of “Jolly Radical” and accurately representing whatever it might be that could be found therein.

          • I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I am probing and studying you and very revealing and interesting the adventure has been. When people believe that they are anonymous they can be unguarded and candid in ways not normally seen in conventional social intercourse.

            In particular you merit a heartfelt “thank you” for participating.

          • How on EARTH do you know what I do and do not say to people in ordinary social discourse ???!!!???!!??

            Turtle, you are a complete fantasist.

          • Considering that I am an atheist and you a theist I suppose you were being ironic in your last sentence. And I wrote “social intercourse” not “social discourse”. Without exaggeration you are the gift that keeps on giving. Now as before you have my gratitude.

          • Considering that I am an atheist

            … it therefore means that whatever it is that you might think has no origin other than inventions inside your own head.

            Or what, did you think that atheism might magically protect people from being fantasists ??? LOL

            And I wrote “social intercourse” not “social discourse”

            Oh my, what an amazing “difference” you’ve uncovered !!!

            /roll-eyes/

    • I, too, would rather like to know what the difference is.

      I’m a Catholic traditionalist (I didn’t know Mr Rees Mogg was). I’m sure I’m also a social conservative. Is it just that I’m not a Tory? Or is there something else?

  12. JRM has been letting the public down solidly with his support of No Deal – if he has seen sense and recanted he may have started on the long road back. However, I suspect that his happiness stems from the ambiguity of the deal and his intention to argue later that it does not mean what the Irish Government and others have been saying that it means.

    Even JRM appears to understand that never-ending 100% purity ends a politician up on the scrap heap.

  13. In the preamble to the Report – a caveat that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

    Davis needed to get to phase 2 and see how that is going to pan out and has left the door open to extracate the UK.

    So, we wait. But, make no mistake, the EU blinked when they thought they would lose the £40B – Davis might yet get a good deal.

    • I share the comments of Roanoake. It would be nice to believe that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, but has not Mrs May et-al already guaranteed certain positions as Ms Gyngell states and Mr O’Toole gleefully confirms? The slang phrase, “Done up like a Kipper” is apposite. Not the UKIP variety though.

      • Verbatum – “Under the caveat that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, the
        joint commitments set out below in this joint report shall be reflected
        in the Withdrawal Agreement in full detail.”

        The above is taken from the Telegraph – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/08/brexit-divorce-deal-agreement-full-read-report-published-phase/

        Fairly plain English – we shall simply have to wait to see how phase 2 pans out – but at least we can have a look at the final deal. I now believe the UK team haven’t done too badly, certainly good enough to proceed to the end of phase 2.

        • Great is your faith! On paper you look justified to claim the prospect of looking at a final deal. Are you confident this could also mean changes thereof? I note the numbered comments on the right hand side of the Telegraph article take a different view, though admittedly they are not the joint statement.
          If the agreement to date is indeed so malleable, why has it taken so long to produce? It also suggests the EU 27 side appear to be grasping for an agreement rather than being hostile. All that glitters is not UK gold I fear.

        • I now discover that David Davis is prepared to put the phase one agreement into a treaty, presumably like the law of the Medes and Persians, which is unalterable. This at the request of Mr Verhofstat.
          Will it require an Angel to deliver the UK as happened to Daniel?
          What is Mr Davis up to?

  14. I do have faith in JRM. He has been talking to Steve Bannon and Nigel Farage over the last couple of weeks. He has to decide what he does now. He more than anyone will have to deal with ire of the Brexiteers because it is he more than anyone else in the Conservative Party who has stood for the country. Not even Peter Bone or Bill Cash have been so strongly opposed to much of what the government has done.

    I think the government doesn’t realise how angry the country is. Everywhere we go even Remainers, who seem happy we will be Remaining in the EU, are shocked at the blatant sell out of democracy. It sends a very strong message not to bother to aim for the stars or believe in your country when it only gives you the crumbs from the table.

  15. There must be something seriously wrong with the Conservative party for a significant number of its supporters to be willing to invest so much in a obvious no-hoper like Jacob Rees-Mogg, a man not promoted or brought into government in the most junior role role imaginable. Like so much going on in politics these days the explanation as per Rees-Mogg’s temporary and most likely ephemeral popularity is probably more psychological than political truth be told.

    Weird doesn’t even begin to describe it.

    Fascinating stuff.

    • I think there is a kind of wishful analogy with Corbyn’s unforeseen success. Also if you look at the Tory cabinet it isn’t exactly overflowing with talent. Compered with some of the incompetents there he looks ok.

      • People do seem so fed up with the status quo that they prefer grasping at straws rather than lifebelts these days it seems to me. Neither Jacob Rees-Mogg or Jeremy Corbyn seem fit to lead a nation as far as I am concerned and their appeal, such as it is, seems based on wishful thinking, projection and emotion than analysis and good sense which cannot be a good way to choose a Prime Minister, whose decisions will affect the lives of millions for years and years.

        Both Rees-Mogg and Corbyn are inexperienced and untested.

        Personally I dislike both.

        • I agree that there is a superficial similarity. However, Corbyn is just one facet of a much more seismic change in the Labour party. The explosion in its membership is a completely new and unforeseen phenomenon, and not one I can imagine ever happening in the Tory party. In fact the Tory party continues on a long weary decline with ever fewer, ever more elderly members. Hard to imagine them chanting for JRM at Glastonbury!

          • Apparently the right-of-centre reality TV star Gorgia “Toff” Toffolo was crowned Queen of the Jungle in the Ant and Dec extravaganza I’m a Celebrity Get Me out of Here! I expect an article about her to appear on this very website imminently citing this victory as evidence of resurgent mass support amongst the young for Conservatism and right-wing politics generally.

        • I suspect it’s part of the appeal of JRM – the concept that “the labour party picked an unconventional joke parody for a leader and that seems to have worked well for them, so let’s do the same”

    • Of course, he wasn’t brought into government….he is not a globalist and is too much of an ideological threat. I trust him and hope he will one day be PM.

      • It would be amusing to see who Rees-Mogg would select for posts in his cabinet I must admit. I wonder who would be prepared to serve under him?
        Sadly it is a question that will never be answered.

  16. If you want negotiation done properly, then you need trade unionists to do it. The Government’s claim to want something like CETA, only even more so, will unite the Labour Party like nothing in years. There are people in Labour who want Brexit, and there are people who do not. But none of them wants this.

    Meanwhile, the wholesale capitulation of Theresa May and of John Major’s erstwhile Europe Minister, David Davis, is being hailed as a triumph by the supposed Brexiteers on the Conservative benches. Those truly of that mind number barely the couple of dozen that opposed Maastricht, several of them are the same individuals, and none of them stands any more chance of becoming Leader than Tony Marlow ever did.

  17. Maybe he is waiting to oust Theresa May. The only hope for this country I can see is Mogg becoming PM.

  18. I love this kind of article. In summary Brexit would be fantastic, only they are DOING IT ALL WRONG. Even the sainted JRM!

    • And now he’s got a nice little £74,000 p.a., EU pension for life and claimed every expense available while an MEP while castigating others for behaving similarly and riding the “gravy train”.

      Principles? What principles?

      Shome mishtake shurely?

      • At least while he was in the gravy train he was trying to put the brakes on it I suppose, which is more than the other passengers with the exception of Dan Hannan were doing.
        At the end of the day, the EU is an inflexible “jobs for the boys” protectionist club full of all the diseconomies of scale that you get with huge self-serving bureaucracies. Originally I thought it was a great idea in theory, but it’s turned out to be terribly mismanaged in practice.

      • I think his plan was to change gravy trains, hopping on to the one that is drawn along by Trump’s coat tails. Then he only went and made the ultimate mistake and offered some mild criticism of Trump’s bombing of Syria. So I’m gusseting the poor chap needs his EU pension.

        • I think Nigel could host an entertaining chat show on TV or radio. If Piers Morgan managed it Farage could surely make a good fist of it, if not in the UK then on the Fox channel in America which is peopled with right-leaning weirdos.

      • Nigel has spent 20 years battling to leave the Empire and it is mainly thanks to him that we stood a chance of leaving, now betrayed. All MPs and MEPs are salaried with pensions. The Mps who were in business could have earned more staying in it. It looks as though the EU will refuse to pay the pensions of UK Mps and the civil servants who took an oath of loyalty to the EU. We should honour those pensions of MPs but tax them, unlike the EU racket. We should also tell the Commission that the British civil servants should not be discriminated against and they can have and pay them as loyal bureaucrats.

        • I think he should stop moaning about the UK having to pay money to the EU to fund EU pensions and advocate shirking our debts when he himself is cashing in, hand over fist, from an institution he wanted to destroy.

          Farage should take the money and abandon the hypocrisy.

          • How does one build up debts as a 40+ year net contributor? What do the majority of net recipients owe if you believe the UK has debts?

      • You completely misrepresent the situation. Farage deserves every penny of his pension. Unlike the shameless pro-EU politicians who fully support the EU in order to get their pension payouts.

  19. Don’t forget that Eire will become a net contributor to the EU if the UK leaves and that they are being forced to put up taxes to high tech companies by Brussels. The last thing they want is a UK free to do so. The border nonsense is just a plot to stop Brexit and our civil servants are complicit. Whether May is a traitor, thick or perhaps both is a good question.

    Davis is possibly playing Keep Calm and Hope, and can’t quite work it out either, which is why he keeps chuckling like some sort of deranged soldier with combat stress. Interesting that Junker is tweeting that they are Irish. Maybe after a Cognac breakfast and as a way to express his gratitude now that their plan is working, and with Theresa smiling so nicely every time she comes over to collaborate or capitulate he may start to say they are all British now.

    Brexiteer MPs are relying on the wording being ambiguous. Barnier and our civil servants will agree that it is not and all EU law will apply, then hand over our money, as usual.

  20. They’ve all gone silent, or as of today praised Mrs May for her ‘breakthrough’, because the EU has allowed the Tories to survive in office (but not in power). Without the ‘breakthrough’ the talks would have failed, and presumably the EU isn’t willing to see that happen now and perhaps have to deal with Mrs May’s replacement, who could be Mr Rees-Mogg or Mr Johnson.

    Mrs May derided the Norway option as not being Brexit at all, yet the terms of the transition arrangements she proposes are far inferior. These terms are now acceptable because it keeps the Tories in office.

  21. I’m an Irish citizen with strong family ties to Britain where I have lived for years & hope to return. I am utterly dismayed at the tone & temper the Irish government have been taking towards Britain regarding Brexit. The UK are Ireland’s biggest trading partner, not to mention the unique ties of culture, history & family with Britain that we don’t have with any country on the continent. The EU has treated Ireland abysmally in recent years. It has ceased to be a free trade body & should be scrapped. Don’t get me started about Fintan O’Toole. This is an Orwell Prize winning writer who recently on Irish TV stated that free speech was sacrosanct but that at the same time we must protect people from hurtful speech. Orwell was a free speech absolutist and even more absurdly O’Toole was engaging in the doublethink straight out of 1984.

  22. As much as I admire JRM I am feeling that he too would wobble when push comes to shove. The tories have bred a spineless crew of politicians – none of them have any principles.

  23. And now the government have bottled it and signed the treaty into law, permanently tying us to EU law and what will probably be a useless trade deal benefiting them, not us.

    The damage this will do to the Tories at the ballot box will send the party down the memory hole, like it so richly deserves.

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