Kathy Gyngell: Sexodus anger needs to be channelled before it explodes

‘Coo’ is pretty much my response on reading the 255 record number of comments on my blog urging men to stand up to feminists rather than turn their backs on women in general.

I now feel some sympathy for that P. G. Wodehouse character, the irritating Edwin, (Florence Craye’s younger brother in Joy in the Morning, for the non-Wodehouse fans among the readers).  He is the boy scout hell bent on doing a daily act of kindness only to find it erupt in his face each time. ‘Coo’, he says, as the cottage burns down when he attempts to clean the chimney using gunpowder and paraffin. Mine was, unintentionally, a gunpowder and paraffin blog.

Talk about a fusillade of return fire. Coo indeed.  If I had set out to annoy ‘sexodus’ men (which I didn’t, needless to say) I could not have succeeded better.  There were two common themes to the comments, which can pretty much summed up as, ‘how dare you’ and too late. MGTOW (men are going their own way – and not coming back) so put that in your pipe and smoke it (that, at least, is my polite interpretation).

How about you do that (stand up to feminists), and stop expecting men to do the work for you. YOU sat back and enjoyed the benefits of feminism. YOU said nothing while feminists increasingly grew more and more vitriolic towards men. YOU said nothing about alimony and women winning custody in 80 per cent plus of cases while men go to jail for missing payments they can't afford.

So now that men are finally fed up of all this nonsense and leaving, now suddenly "WE" need to stand up and say something?

Anger and disgust is palpable in the stream.  There are so many quotes it is impossible to chose. The same writer pretty much sums them up:

First it's "men need to shut up and stop whining", which we see in this doozy of a line you wrote: 'That’s why men playing victim, however badly they have been treated, is no answer. Then it's ‘No, you're not allowed to leave, you have to fix this!'

And very soon it will be: 'But where did all the men go? I think I need more cats.' 

I am done being used by women like you. Fix the problem yourself, and let me know when it's safe to come back.

My ‘coo’ response, however, is not altogether one of surprise – even at the  vitriol and abuse we moderated out. Men have  much to be furious about.  But anger directed at us is a bit rich given a key reason we set up The Conservative Woman was exactly to challenge feminism.  Vive la difference! remember? If this is not apparent from our blogs (Laura Perrins, Belinda Brown, Kimberly Ross and Caroline Farrow all regularly expose its flaws and dangers as have I done too) please turn to our mission statement:

Forty years of feminism has brought with it as many problems as it has solutions.

… It means advocating values and approaches marginalised in a media dominated by feminist orthodoxies.

TCW will challenge and question these received wisdoms and such politically correct thinking.

So to find yourself  target number one for the ire of the men of the ‘sexodus’ is somewhat ironic.

Not all of the commentators tarred us with the same brush, however, or were so unremittingly negative about our motives  or about the value of fighting this battle against feminism.

Some like politicalcynic (presumably an American) pointed out reasonably and understandably that:

The dangers in "challenging" feminism are simply too great for men. It is far too easy, for instance, for a man to have his life destroyed with a false allegation combined with "listen and believe". It is far too easy for a man to get married and lose far more than half of everything in a divorce. It is far, far too easy for men to be accused of sexual harassment, bias and privilege and silenced. Today there is already one college requiring an "ideologically approved feminist re-education" for mere ADMISSION to their programs.

From a cost/risk analysis-nope-it is far better for men to simply walk away. Period.

 It is hard to disagree with him - except his last sentence. His deduction from this cost/risk analysis is a counsel of despair if there was one. What then of the future for children, family and society – or does he think a Brave New World of test-tube genderless babies is fine?

This is exactly why right minded men and women must fight the battle against feminism together. Men and women enacted the Equality Act, not just women – men have gone along with this agenda.

But the good news is that contrary to the negativity of the MGTOW isolationists there are people out there very bravely fighting for change – at this election no less.  Justice for Men and Boys (and the women who love them) – a recently formed political party - is not walking away into the twilight of a defensive sex segregation dystopia.

They are fighting on the doorsteps, if not yet on the beaches - campaigning for ‘the human rights of men and boys (including the unborn) who have been increasingly assaulted by the State’s actions and inactions for over 30 years, usually to advantage women and/or girls.’

And where are they courageously fielding their two candidates but in seats defended by two unreconstructed feminists. Mike Buchanan (their party leader) is standing in Ashfield, a traditionally safe Labour seat which Gloria De Piero (who was selected from an all-women shortlist) retained for Labour with a majority of just 192 votes in 2010. Ray Barry (leader of Real Fathers for Justice) is challenging Anna Soubry, a Conservative MP and minister, in Broxtowe – another highly marginal seat.

They are to be congratulated and have our best wishes for their democratic challenge. Because, as these comments to my blog show, if feminism is not challenged democratically, this Pandora’s box of male anger it has created  could burst open of its own accord.  That would not be a good thing for male - female harmony, which is necessary both for children's wellbeing and a happy, healthy society.

Kathy Gyngell

  • wordsIVue

    The men who want to stand alongside women think feminism represents women. The men who see through the lies are turning away in disgust and will not stand by women unless they see women fighting for a just society. And fighting does not mean standing in the sidelines wringing your hands and cajoling the menfolk into fighting for you. When you have an egalitarian organization of women that has a visible and audible presence in society, can lobby government, put pressure on media, universities etc., then you can expect support from men. Therefore please make your exhortations to women in the first instance instead of men. And if you are unable to form such an organization, then realize what it is women really want and why men are walking away.

  • But that’s *always* the cry when a woman sees something she believes should change: “YOU MEN need to do something about this”.

    Even though I’m not technically MGTOW, if I may presume to speak for them for a moment: We’re sick of it. We’re sick of doing all the hard work and getting shit on for it. So there you go, ladies, the civilization we built is yours. But expect no more help from us – if you can’t maintain it, you starve. I’ll be over here providing for myself.

  • gammosiuwong

    I really don’t think that women fully comprehend what over 40 years of feminism has felt like as a man – hence your shock at the reaction you receive. Many women have only recently come to voice their objections now that feminists threaten family life too. Yes, we men are disgusted that when such patent injustices took place your sex rejoiced in our pain and failed to come to our aid (my sister and deceased mother among them)….and we won’t readily forget. “Sorry” won’t
    cut it.

    While appreciating that your blog is called Conservative ‘Woman’, even now your primary objection to feminism is the destruction of marriage and the failure of young men to commit to their own demise. Is this not the very same self-interest displayed by feminists? Why do you publish the drivel of Harry Benson, the marriage apologist, when you know full well that it’s now a contract of effective slavery? Have you published articles on paternity fraud, on male homelessness, on the unjust criminal justice system etc? Or is your only concern what impacts upon your sex and not justice.

    Yes, some women have done much more than offer sympathy, but as a sex you have not. I may be wrong, but please tell me of any female movement that has ever campaigned for the rights of men? I don’t know of one. Your sex has such a profound same sex bias (innate I believe) – the opposite of men I might add – that siding with men, however rational or just the argument, will always be beyond the pale. “Hmm, yes, terrible…those are lovely flowers” aka “”Let’s move on, I don’t want my privilege to change”.

    So, in conclusion, to offer kind words is not enough. To ask men to bail you out, as always, because your sex lacked the foresight to see that they would be targeted in due course is.….a bit rich. There are now scores of men, of all ages, who have witnessed the horrors that your
    sex endorsed and discovered that they do have a personal value beyond that of provisioner and failed coffin dodger. You won’t get them back.

    From the outset I have been a donor to JFMB, because I care about men (plural), children and society but if you think that someone else will do it for you you’re wrong. I think that women have the capacity to be awesome, and (shoot me down guys!) I think you are quite special, but find the modern entitled version abhorrent. I don’t think men will explode but I do think that we’ll make life intentionally unpleasant for women. Your sex deserves no less.

    Until women stand up en masse, not individually, we’ll continue to turn our backs to you. It’s all your sex understands.

  • Neroke2013

    NO!

    This is most certainly NOT just a bunch of lonely bitter men using MGTOW as an excuse for being single. But nice try at attempting to shame though.

    This is more than just a few bitter guys looking for an excuse, unless you can prove that marriage laws, divorce, false accusations, male shaming and all the other issues that are going on with Mens Rights are just fictional made up stories then what you assert is completely off base.

    Let me make this CRYSTAL GOD DAMN CLEAR TO YOU. The marriage laws and old cultural institutions are a joke, feminism and SJW’s have managed to make them so toxic that no man with an ounce of brains would even consider going there.

    I’m gone I’ve taken the red pill and I’m off the plantation and unless you have a much better off I sure as hell have no intention of coming back. And I’m not getting shamed into going by a judgemental prick like you. So unless you try to force us back (Bring guns then because I’m not going willingly) I aint going back. I’ve seen too much and know too much and YOU aint going to bullshit or shame me into returning

  • Jade Davis

    I like this article.

    • Datte Hakamura

      Imagine my surprise.

  • sputnik

    Okay. Here’s one more comment, just for you, to up your score even further. You deserve it. (snicker)

    “My wife says, ‘Rodney, take out the garbage!’ I says, ‘You cooked it; you take it out!’ ”

    (You kiddin’ me? Something about I don’ get no respect comes to mind.)

    And in that one — maybe the finest single sucker-punch one-liner of all time, and certainly my all-time favorite — I find encapsulated the attitudes of the overwhelming majority of the (overwhelmingly male) commenters here. (boink!)

    And to those guys, I have one thing to say: go reread Paul Elam’s touchstone piece entitled “The Plague of Modern Masculinity,” and read it over and over until you get it. Do a site search at A Voice for Men. dot com.

    Responsibility, like it or not, is a shared affair. Any responsibility. For anything. Who been toleratin’ this cookin’, eh? And for how long?— guysss?

    The greater wrongdoing is generally not the thing done, but the thing NOT done which should have been done. It’s generally the matter of greater magnitude, and generally overlooked. After all, it’s the thing NOT there.

    Men have rights — and I could carry on at turrible great length on that subject, but first we’d have to do an in-depth examination of the concepts of rights and indeed, man, woman, and human, believe it or not, an examination employing cutting-edge observation, and strictest logic, with more than a few surprises along the way — but for present purposes, suffice it to say that any rights left undefended are lost. Blackened toast. Tough turkey. Garbage. Goes to the nature of rights, yer honor, when possession is nine-tenths of the law.

    And unfortunately, that’s what’s left to us guys: a tenth or less.

    And this is how far we’ve sunk, already. The question is this: you guysss wanna just go down with the ship?— or is it time to start building some life boats out of seat cushions and scrap! No, I’m talkin’ to all you guys up here with me at the high end of this tilting hulk. At least we’ve had the good sense to buy ourselves some time. It IS on us…

    ‘cuz “she” ain’t gonna do it.

    That said — and thus is the author of this piece more or less correct, just a little tone deaf in her approach, right there in the title of her other piece once again exhorting men with a should — and yes, Kathy, that’s how bad it has gotten — no defense of any right is worth half a shit if no one will acknowledge it.

    “She” gotta do somethin’, sooner or later, granted. This can’t be a one-man gender-show.

    I’ll be glad to HELP you take out take out the garbage, galsss, if you’ll acknowledge the mess that you’ve made, and we guysss have allowed, if you’ll recognize the fact that the highest calling of a human being, regardless of sex and regardless of the means of its expression in action or profession, is one of service to others, and that you (women in general) now have a long damn way to go to generate an equitable return flow in this regard…

    and if you promise to git yer ass to a cookin’ class. Cheers.

    (Metaphorically speaking, of course. I, m’self, like to cook, and I do it very well. Ain’t never been nobody to do it for me since I was a kid, and I’m worth it, dadgummit!. I’ll fry your fat with one of my famous habanero omelettes — watch as it slides right out o’the pan every time — and you WILL like it, even as you sweat… 🙂

    Signed,

    A Guy

    PS. “I just don’t think meatloaf should glow in the dark. Hey, at MY house, we pray AFTER we eat.”

  • corinium

    I’m afraid the male anger at the current situation can’t be channeled. Any attempt now by women to mitigate the effects that men dropping out of society and relationships will have will only be seen as more self interest by women, not as changes that are designed to help men. As I have said before – women only want change when something is impacting them personally, beyond that they have little care for theoretical ‘fairness’. Thus as the impacts of feminism are beginning to impact women’s lives negatively suddenly there are mutterings about changes being necessary. Not because women have suddenly seen the light about how men are treated unfairly but because THEY are now experiencing problems. The issues surrounding boys, men and how society treats them have been obvious for decades now, but no woman was saying how unfair such treatment was then. Indeed any man who brought up the issue was publicly vilified and attacked – ask Neil Lyndon.

    Anyway, however much a few women at the margins may wish to rebalance the relationship between the sexes, its not going to happen. Women are going to have to face the consequences of the monster they unleashed, and there’s nothing much they can do stop it. Not least because the feminists are in charge of public policy and the pendulum is still being swung even further in the favour of women in that sphere. The concept of ‘mens rights’ in such circles is still utterly beyond the pale.

  • ManWithPlan

    I’m a right-leaning guy myself, but you’re looking through rose colored glasses. Conservatives have happily strong-armed men with legislation like VAWA and the atrocious child support enforcement and family courts.

  • fromaway05

    As laws become more pro women, anti men, we are fleeing. This is survival. Men are demonized as child and women molesters. Only men commit domestic violence, men are made to change seats next to an unaccompanied child on an aircraft. Men are suspect in a public playground with their children, men are shamed for taking up too much space in public transportation. All this before we talk about double standards in relations and family life, divorce court, domestic violence 911 calls, etc.

    Bitter? Sure as Shinola, what would you expect otherwise? We older men have survived the roller coaster of feminist change and our horrible marriages. We have no worth, but it is the present generation of young men you do need to worry about. They haven’t joined a MGTOW forum or even know what it means, but they have gone their own way and have zero desire to become the demonized husband their father was. The father they rarely got to see after their mothers decided to cash out and trade up for a better deal. Their boyhood was demonized and drugged, and their boyish behaviors shamed.

    You don’t want us back for genetic material, you want us back for the only reason women have ever “loved” men; our provisions. Sorry conservative women, the slaves are not on strike, they have fled the plantation and are not coming back; not my generation or the present generation of young slaves.

  • Alex Cockell

    The guys being classed as “pigtow” are more often than not the ones who have been seriously burned – we’re talking divorced – raped by women etc etc…

    SO the anger is real and palpable… and when criminal hearsay laws are being enacted…

  • Chet Lemon

    Why is this woman obsessed with trying to guilt men into fighting feminism? Kathy, you are free to fight feminism on your own. In fact, there are plenty of intelligent, educated women who are now campaigning against feminism. Don’t try to ‘rally up the troops’. If you truly care about these issues, then you’ll contribute on your own.

  • A Nonymouse

    Trying to stand up, as you are advocating, does not work. Quite a few of us have already tried this for some time. Do you think the UK reached this state without any resistance?
    The battle has already been fought, and lost.
    Indeed, further resistance by men now only prolongs the suffering.
    Step back and let it collapse, then be ready to pick up the pieces, is the approach that will cause the least suffering in the long run. Furthermore, a huge collapse will provide an excellent example for a few generations to encourage people to avoid having this situation develop again.

  • Rphoff

    “Sooner or later men in general will become aware of the new reality. Getting married no longer is a reliable path to having a family, but the burdens will be yours for the duration either way. In theory we would have a group in our society invested in conserving the traditional family. If I had to make up a name for such a theoretical group, I’d call them Traditional Conservatives.
    Now that I mention it, we already have a group by that name and with those stated goals. However, they aren’t interested in ensuring that the traditional patriarchal model of the family is protected*. Instead, almost all of them have made it a habit to cut men off at the knees. Their unwritten agreement with feminists has been and continues to be to hold men down while feminists rob them.
    – Quote from Dalrock’s article “Will beta’s Shrug?”

  • Bonesy

    Typical shaming language, feminism has already won.
    Look at the media, the courts,
    College campuses, the laws and etc., there is no place for us in society. We have no other option but to go our own way.

    I don’t care about the children id rather see the western civilization collapse and be burned to a crisp

    • Women are women, their DNA makes their politics moot.

  • pocketspock

    Um, I think that for the most part MGTOW are past anger. Our concern now is ourselves, as men. Women have said loudly and repeatedly that they don’t men and it is my belief that they have proven it. They don’t need men to work, raise children, live happily or even to eat, pray, or to love. Women have enjoyed their liberation and we’re settling into ours quite nicely. If women enjoyed their liberation men are positively giddy at the possibilities. You mean I can work, pay my own bills, remain single, travel and entertain myself and have sex when it comes around and I’m interested? I don’t have to work myself into an early grave? I don’t have to keep up with the materialism treadmill? Where do I sign up for this? Oh that’s right, I don’t have sign up, I can go my own way on my own.

    You did say the following:

    What then of the future for children, family and society – or does he think a Brave New World of test-tube genderless babies is fine?

    Are you really going to try to hold MGTOW hostage to children that don’t exist yet? Or may never exist? Really? You’re trying to shame us with unreal, unlived lives? What of the children that do exist that have no father? Women have happily, in greater and greater numbers gotten rid of the man or simply, beyond getting pregnant never bothered having him around. But make sure that the name on the bottom of the child support cheque is right, correct?

    Family? Well here’s the current state of it: the de facto construction of family is now a woman living with her children and collecting a child support cheque while the father has varying degrees of access. Marriages where both parents live together with the children are a dwindling number and when it fails it goes to the de facto presumption that I have just mentioned.

    And your question of society. You mean the one that watches boys not finish high school? The one that watches girls outpace boys in college and university? The one that in which single, never married women under 30 outearn their male peers? The one that sees men suffer from ever higher drug and alcohol abuse rates? Be the majority of the homeless? Have no domestic violence shelters? The one that takes awake drivers licenses and jails men for men who fail to pay for children that they had no legal say in fathering? The one that watches suicide be the number one killer of men between twenty-four and fifty-five? That one? Is that the society that you’re talking about?

    No, MGTOW are not angry. The angry men are the ones who are still trying to work with a system that they don’t realize wasn’t built for them and doesn’t care about them. On the whole MGTOW as our numbers grow and and we realize that we’re not alone in how we feel are becoming a happier, peaceful, relaxed and more contented group.

    I think you’re reaction to MGTOW can be summed up thusly, “Please don’t quit before we’ve had a chance to fire you.”

    MGTOW.

    • mack

      they need the big fat check though. thats really all they cared for anyway;at the cost of men life and happyness

    • Dream Canal

      MGTOW are by definition past anger. Anger shows you care, that you buy into the idea. I just laugh. What tradition is being proposed the 1970s? Return to 1570 when women were property of men, then I’ll get interested.

  • mack

    “It is hard to disagree with him – except his last sentence. His deduction from this cost/risk analysis is a counsel of despair if there was one. What then of the future for children, family and society – or does he think a Brave New World of test-tube genderless babies is fine?”

    If you dont understood yet we dont give a damn about children or family or even more society. Many of us wont ever have children for reasonable reasons, those who got children lost them or are paying a absurd amount of money in child support.Most of us wont ever marry/marry again,does who had a a family realized they had no rights in it so /care to family, we have our parents and such to care for.thats about it. i think as well most of the sexodus guys especially mgtow doesnt care one bit about a society that has been against them and turn them into a second rate slave , disposable worker drone. We have pulled out and only care about our lifes, and our sexodus comrades. Nowone else ever care for us so why would we care about anything/anyone else?
    His last sentence is the truth for every single one of us. We wont come back, feminist or conservative, i will never do anything that is not the best for ME , if it happens that other people happen to gain from what i do as bystanders ; Lucky them. i will not specificly go do something for someone else especially women.Your gender went too far: now i will just enjoy seeing society burn while sitting on my porch drinking a ice tea. English is not my mother thongue so sorry about the spelling and such.

    • pocketspock

      Let’s not forget that aside from the part of women carrying children to term we already live in a test tube baby society.

      A woman I know recently gave birth to her first child. Where is the father? Who knows? She went to a fertility clinic and got inseminated. Thus, it’s a deflection for the author to pretend that somehow women aren’t already doing this. Perhaps she means test-tube genderless babies when men can hire women a surrogates thus eliminating women from all but birth?

      • mack

        they will do so until men stop donating sperm. the donations are already too scarce for the demand and it will only get worse

        • pocketspock

          Several countries (including the U.K., Canada and the U.S) are already running short of sperm and are having to import it. It’s kind of funny that the cry from women seems to be going from ‘Where are all the good men?’ to ‘Where are all the good men’s sperm?’

          btw, thanks for the note on the last sentence I’ve edited my first post.

  • A Nonymouse

    I don’t think the average person in the UK has noticed just how mediocre and disorganised everything has become. For example, I have been waiting for a response to a letter from a major Government department for over a year. They’ve acknowledged receipt and promised a reply. They’ve had reminders. Nothing happens. I could list twenty similar examples off the top of my head. Could I fix this? Yes. Did this happen when I worked? No. It’s not the lazy, never-had-a-job men leaving that’s the problem, it’s the capable ones who’ve had enough of the bullsh!t. Can women replace them and do just as well? Well, individual women can be just as managerially capable as men, but there are three reasons why not.1.Not if they are bringing up kids as a single mum-the time and priority pressures don’t allow it. 2. Delegation of judgement is being removed from the system, and women tend to accept this more than men for reasons of job security (especially if she has kids), so the descent of the system into chaos is not being challenged or fixed. 3. The average women avoids conflict more than the average male, so a consensus approach develops, which is no way to fix a crisis.
    And there are capable women dropping out too. I know several. Mostly they are still within society rather than out in the backwoods in a cabin, but they’ve found a quiet spot that in no way fully utilises their talents.
    Amid the negativity, I would like to emphasise that I am an optimist, but the bad news is I do not think that UK society can be fixed from within any more.
    You can’t fight city hall.
    It’s an amorphous beast that drains the will to live if you play strictly by its (contradictory) rules, and any attempt to get pushy or forceful is doomed to gather retribution, because the feminist agenda interprets that as male aggression with attendant punishment.
    So, two options remain. Either reasonable women (en masse) get off their backsides, pluck up some courage and go march against the feminists. Or ‘society’ collapses under a massive bureaucracy of mediocracy that has an ever diminishing tax base and ever increasing external threats.
    At which point, the non-nihilist capable, productive men will return, but it will be entirely on our terms, not yours.

  • Marginalized Dad

    Personally, I am disinterested in the quality of life and the survival of women. They can live or die on their own dime and on their own labors. We all know that men underpin the survival and quality of life of women and the survival of the State. A good man can survive out in the rural and wilderness areas without paying much into the tax base, and even thrive without them. Women are simply a negative accounting on a spread sheet these days for any intelligent man. Remove men and everything crumbles. That is my hope and dream. Perhaps something better can be built from the ashes of this dying fiery phoenix. Women are not women anymore and not worth the trouble they cause. To hell with the kids too. Their Dad’s will only be alienated from them, putting their Dad’s in the poor house or causing them to commit suicide fighting in vain to see them, and grow up feminized, maladjusted, with victim and entitlement complexes, being unprepared to meet this world head-on as adults. You women are no longer worth our time. I’d rather be alone and beat off.

  • Datte Hakamura

    You really think that feminism is the main/only problem? Get it through your thick skull, we are not doing anything for you, we are walking away, fix yourselves, fix other women, start caring about other people, particularly men, but we’re not going back to the plantation, we’re walking away.

    It’s not about anger, it’s about realizing you’re not worth it. You bring absolutely nothing to a relationship or to society, nothing at all.

    Fix society yourselves, it’s not our burden.

  • Dan B

    i’m MGTOW, because i realized that 90+% of US women aren’t even worth dating, let alone worth the risk of marriage

  • Moe MGTOW

    LOL “What about the children?” My answer: I don’t care. I never wanted children nor a wife. I seen how that game is played with women and government. Women are so parasitically selfish that they want lower standards and discriminatory preference against men within every sector of life. Go get a homeless man to father your children, if you want them so badly. Women have only wanted more discriminatory treatment against men for 50+ years. Yet, all you care about now is the lack of children to take as hostages and meal tickets. LOL

    It is also ironic that you say nothing about men being discriminated against in employment and education. In the USA, the government and fake victims groups will force employers to lower standards and discriminate against white men within employment and education. I would recommend you find one of the immigrants to father your children, because obviously women have declared war against white men for 50+ years.

    I would recommend having a great deal of fun and taking advantage of every discriminatory program against men. Soon western governments will be broke, then you will need to fend for yourselves. I hope western nations collapse, so that would be a victory to me.

    You have nothing to hold over single men without children, which is the reason more single men without children. Do your worst ladies. Men like me will never come back to be your slaves.

  • CrackMerchant

    walking away is the best choice, marriage the worst