Kathy Gyngell: A stiff upper lip is preferable to Harry’s emotional incontinence

If Harry is a victim of anything it is of the celebrity ‘me culture’, the one that, since his mother bared her soul to the nation in an interview with Martin Bashir in 1995 (that also left her eldest son deeply upset and which she later is said to have regretted), turned emoting into a national pastime.

Diana’s subsequent death catalysed an incontinence of grief that Oliver James identified in Britain On The Couch and which he blamed on our consumer oriented but spiritually bereft society. In the intervening years public vigils, candle lighting and group hugs have come to be the compulsory communal response to death and terrorist attack alike.

Now 20 years on, Prince Harry has chosen to tell the nation that the couch is the answer to the mental health problems we are told half of us suffer from. He adjures us to think more, not less, about ourselves. He felt so much better after therapy, so we should all be at it. The pearl of wisdom His Royal Highness has to offer is that sharing our feelings will solve misery and mend mental ill health to boot.

Before her shock General Election announcement wiped Harry off the front page, Saint Theresa was first to applaud. His decision to 'open up' was an important moment for the nation, this rather ‘unopen' lady opined.  It may well be, but not how she thinks.

Prince William has gone public too, priming his bro’s campaign with a press released chat with Lady Gaga of raw meat dress attire and clichéd bromides: No one should try to keep a stiff upper lip at the expense of their own wellbeing. Not even the Queen, Wills? For too long there has been a taboo over talking about such issues.

It came as news to me. We live in a culture that does nothing but – ad nauseam. You cannot escape it. Now men must cry too. Feminisation is the modern answer to male problems and is what the Princes are giving their imprimatur to. They would have been better to stick with the army.

Of course, the Princes suffered a particularly traumatic loss, one intensified by the glare of media interest, by their parent’s prior extra marital and publicly known relationships, by the public’s Diana obsession and also by Tony Blair’s political exploitation of her death. That they have felt the need for professional ‘therapeutic’ help should surprise no one. That is not what I condemn.

The fact is that despite the emotional roller coaster of their childhood and the affluent neglect that at times marked their upbringing, something clearly went right – a loving father, good and attentive schooling and caring grandparents maybe. I don’t know what else contributed, but the Princes survived and more. They have turned into decent if naïve young men of their generation.

Their family, like most, pulled together in the way it could and coped. That is the lesson, not that we need a mental health nurse in every classroom to make sure toddlers share their feelings. Anyway, grief and bereavement are not mental health disorders for heaven’s sake. They are normal emotions that everyone at some point will experience.

Modelling public policy on the Princes' adult accounts of their particular childhood grief is a complete nonsense. Turning private grief into public drama is the problem not the solution. For the last thing children need is to be made to share their feelings with strangers and, worst of all, in public in the classroom.

I happen to know. One of my children was subjected to one such clumsy PHSE attempt at counselling in the weeks before his father’s death. No doubt this class pre-bereavement ‘help’ exercise was well meant but it inflicted on my unsuspecting 11-year-old  an attention he hated, found distressing and which was unwelcome to us both. I doubt Harry either would have appreciated it much at the time. But that is the Pandora’s box he has opened up.

Therapy culture trumped my child's right to and desire for privacy.  If it becomes the new orthodoxy it will institutionalise yet another State intrusion of the private sphere and a takeover of family life that the progressively illiberal liberal Left’s agenda dictates.

Harry is not a hero for talking about his feelings just a useful idiot - and his brother too. No doubt teaming up with the perpetually self-obsessed Bryony Gordon (who also thinks her ‘illness’ gives her the right to tell the rest of us what to do) was a coup for the Telegraph.

For the gullible and eager to please Harry it was, at best, a way of accounting for his past behaviour while softening us up for marriage to a divorcee herself versed in the modern art of virtue signalling.

For the monarchy once defined by its service to others, it may indeed prove a watershed moment. Modern monarchy from now threatens to be all about ‘me’. Some gift to the people.

God knows what the Queen thinks after all those years of studied restraint and self-control that mark her lifetime of service to the people. It is the end of that era to be sure unless the Princes wake up to the perils of modernity and the dangers of the liberal Left’s self-serving claptrap.

Prince Harry does have unique platform and position to do more than politically correct posturing if he feels the need. One cause springs to mind that seems to have bypassed his celebrity pals. It is child labour in the Congo - yes the servitude that keeps us all in smart phones.

View this film. If this child cruelty, as bad as anything from Victorian Britain, taking place right now in the mines of the Congo, doesn’t put the Princes’ self-indulgent mental health heart wringing into perspective, nothing will.

(Image: UK in Italy)

Kathy Gyngell

  • Nicholas Bennett

    I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds all the public soul bearing inappropriate. Life throws up challenges and traumas and generations have faced war, poverty, disease and hardship but have triumphed with common sense and strength of character.

  • Uusikaupunki

    i am trying to imagine the present generation being alive during the last German unpleasantness and being aroused by such stirring speeches as….

    “We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall emote on the beaches, we shall emote on the landing grounds, we shall emote, in the fields and streets…..”

    “I have nothing to offer but teddy bears, flowers and tears……”

    If all else fails, scream GO AWAY nasty Germans!!

  • Muttley

    Well said! How does publicly splattering your feelings left, right and centre help with anything? Is it some sort of giant communal therapy? As my admirably self-contained father would say, a problem shared is a problem doubled! Long live the stiff upper lip, and an end to all the bleating and its corrosive effect on public life.

    • Groan

      “As my admirably self-contained father would say, a problem shared is a problem doubled!” Actually this is proving to be so in research. Though women do indeed “share” their emotional turmoil much more if they do so to friends and colleagues the results can simply be confirmation of their anxiety,depression etc. deepening it rather than the reverse! It is no use to people if all that others simply agree “life is terrible”.

      • Muttley

        Not to mention the depressing effect of the whinge on the listener!

    • James Chilton

      ✓ For your father.

  • Be-Bop Evola

    Logical short-circuit! Surely emoting over charming photogenic vulnerable black children who are exploited in mining is also a bleeding heart left liberal trope, exactly the kind of photo-opportunity stuff The People’s Princess went in for.

    I presume you’ve thrown away your mobile phone now seeing where it originates?

  • James Chilton

    Of course “going public” about their mental torments is an effective ploy in diverting attention away from the incredibly privileged and self indulgent lives led by the “two princes”.

    • Kathy Gyngell

      Point taken, but not if it was approached seriously not superficially – taking on procurement and supply chains of the powerful companies involved … and exposing all our hypocrisies all down the line …

      • James Chilton

        True. But the causes they get involved with are highly selective and are likely to engender universal acclaim.

        • Groan

          To be fair our “constitutional settlement” pretty much confines the Royals to non controversial supposedly apolitical topics.

      • Bik Byro

        I’m still waiting to hear from James Chilton how fighting in Helmand Province is more privileged and self-indulgent than James Chilton’s working life of looking after the office stationery cupboard. Armchair criticism, much?

        • Lawrence Newman

          Harry CHOSE to goto Helmand to boost brand Harry. Or should I say brand Hewitt .

    • Bik Byro

      No it isn’t, you grade 1 t0sser.

      • James Chilton

        I regard that as a compliment posted by a semi-educated creep.

        • Bik Byro

          Harry fought in Helmand. How does that “incredibly privileged and self-indulgent life” compare with yours? Like to tell us about the combat missions in Afghanistan that the great James Chilton has fought in?

          • James Chilton

            I don’t have to justify my opinions to you. Indeed, if any of my opinions were endorsed by “prikbyro”, I should have good reason to believe myself “in error”.

            As for my record in this country’s service, I would gamble it compares very favourably with yours.

          • Bik Byro

            Go on then, let’s hear about your fantastic record if it’s so good and doesn’t only exist in your head.
            “I don’t have to justify” is a euphemism for “I can’t”

          • James Chilton

            Since you are animated by malice and vanity, it would be foolish either to enter a defence or try to reason with you.

          • Bik Byro

            So that’s your excuse for not having had a career outside of looking after the office stationery cupboard. I’ll leave this here so everyone who reads this can all see how feeble your excuse is for avoiding the issue.

          • James Chilton

            Alas poor Bik, I have no intention of gratifying your childish whim. Even if I wanted to, I could not substantiate my service record in answer to a rational and friendly inquiry. And your inquiries are malevolent and impertinent at best.

          • Bik Byro

            Still not answering the question and still making excuses then. OK.

          • John C

            Just block the creep. I have.

          • James Chilton

            I could do that. I never engage with him or read his comments – unless they’re addressed directly to me. Invariably, he begins with ritual abuse and will attempt to enlist other posters in support of his “attack”. He’s a gutless and spiteful humbug.

          • Lawrence Newman

            30 weeks in Helmand allegedly doesn’t stop him being a worthless parasite. I’ve seen no evidence he did any fighting.

  • Groan

    Well I agree about much of this but I do have to say I commend their motivation to help. Both have served and Harry has fought. Inevitably people take their message to make their own meaning. I have to say I commend their attempt as male suicide rates continue to rise and actually I commend Harry’s approach that sees the value in a male oriented response, focussing on shared activity and comradeship. In fact there is now research that suggests that some typical male responses to other men’s (and women’s) distress are helpful , shared activity, focus on positives, taking action about causes. It is perhaps the great irony of men’s lives that these are precisely the sorts of things both will have found in their military service, and I note Harry in particular talks about this elsewhere.
    One of the unnoticed aspects of the disappearance of “all male” spaces it the paradoxical loss of environments wherein men can express themselves, in their way, to others who have a common or similar experience.
    I think there is a much truth in a quote about depression I read years ago “there’s a good reason men don’t “cry”, the women in their lives are frightened by it”.

    • Kathy Gyngell

      Maybe trying to have a top career and giving birth without much pause for breath – let alone consider your baby’s needs or or indeed your own – which society seems to uncritically favour these days – is a recipe for depression and break down…..

      • SimonToo

        That seems realistic to me. On the other hand, as one who has not achieved the former and could not achieve the latter, perhaps I have been too solicitous of my own sanity.

      • Dacorum

        The blame for all that surely lies with feminists who look down on women who do not put their career first and castigate them as inferior.

        Isn’t it the case that most women rightly ignore such idiocy? Isn’t that why we consistently men earning far more than women in most careers? Men consistently earn more than women because they do not have career breaks and because women rightly put their families first. Men for their part are also putting their families first by putting their career first by climbing the career ladder with the aim of earning more money to support their family.

        The sad thing in this day and age is that one wage is seldom enough to support a family and many women with families are forced to go back to work after childbirth much sooner than they would like. Now that is depressing, isn’t it, especially as that wasn’t the case in the past when far more women had a real choice about whether or not to go back to work after having a baby?

  • SimonToo

    Those wishing to raise an issue or to address a problem need to do so in line with the actual rather than the desirable attitudes of society. In a society where “public vigils, candle lighting and group hugs have come to be the compulsory communal response to death and terrorist attack alike”, this is the way to do it. It may be regrettable by the standards of our past conduct, but sadly that is past conduct and there is little sign of us returning to them. It seems to me that Prince Harry is a realist and, taking a realistic view of modern society’s attitudes, he is leading from the front.

  • hereward

    The Royals have been forced into all this charity worshiping as a mean to try and keep some relevance in our oh so caring society . I feel sorry for them . I would love to hear them say what a relief it is to know we are getting out of the appalling EU disaster area . Also they could ask why we persist in sticking with the out of date and failed FPTP voting system which results in millions of votes being literally wasted . No chance is there ? Better to mumble on about aids or land mines .

    • MacGuffin

      It is none of the royals’ business what we choose to do about the EU or FPTP.

    • Bik Byro

      Yes, yes, it would be far better if they chose just to speak only about the causes that hereward wants pushing.

  • hereward

    This is worth a read from an anglophile Russian .

    http://www.alexanderboot.com/let-the-english-be-english/

    • Busy Mum

      I always say that if you can wear your heart on your sleeve, it must be a very light heart, rather than a heavy one.

  • Leviathan

    Please don’t tell me about your emotional ‘trauma’ and I promise I won’t tell you about mine. Then we can avoid embarrassing one another and simply get on with life.

  • SteadyOn

    I’m not entirely sure why a subject as complex as this would require a one size fits all solution. Some people probably benefit from public emoting and although I find it distasteful I don’t consider it the sort of thing that we ought to lecture each other about – that counts for both royals and columnists.

  • handytrim

    Of course Conservatives want shot of this kind of unpleasantness, it hardly fits in with the, well, conservative nature of being an emotional cripple incapable of caring for anyone else apart from one’s self. And by all means having mental disabilities makes you weak willed and in league with them skunks smokers, right? How dare such a public figure display human feelings. He’s English/German/Greek for God’s sake! Stiff upper lip and all that bullshit.

    • Lawrence Newman

      You’ve missed the point. Being sad that your mum died is just normality. These professional emoters are trying to medicalise normality.

      Which is even more weird when you consider the people from the same area of the political spectrum try to normalise abnormality, e.g. transsexuals, etc.

  • Dacorum

    Surely Harry suffered huge grief and a tremendous sense of loss when his mother died, not mental health problems?

    • Cogito Dexter

      Suppression of that grief and sense of loss will, for many people, eventually express itself in mental health issues. At some point the cork will either pop or the person no longer has a healthy emotional state from where he or she can relate properly to other people and situations. Providing support for a healthy expression of grief – whether in a familial or counselling environment as befits the individual situation – is essential for the future wellbeing of the person.

    • Groan

      Indeed our language hasn’t really caught up with such distinctions. There are really some quite different things under “mental health”. Quite a lot might be described as “mental hygiene” finding ways that helpfully deal with life’s anxieties, depressions setbacks etc. avoiding some of the negative ways such as drinking smoking “self medication” aggression or withdrawal. Much rarer are “manic” illnesses that appear enduring and often appear to have organic causes. Then there are addictions. And of course “disorders” such as Asperger’s which involve different ways of processing sensory data.
      There are of course often overlaps and “bad” mental hygiene can cause chronic problems and lead into serious problems such as suicidal thoughts and actions. However generally such “mental health” campaigns are about mental hygiene. As an observation I recently started to watch “Talking Pictures” with many older B/W british films. One of the “shocking” things is how up front such movies (“B movie” crime films etc.) are about disability, death, loss, disfigurement and so on. This led me to reflect that in my youth helping in a “day centre” and at a “Ex-service mens club” and actually how open talk was about the downs as well as ups of life. Not science I admit but I suspect that paradoxically our cultural reticence to face the unpleasant aspects of life actually gives many fewer opportunities to “exorcise” our feelings. We have banished so much that is a problem from our lives making us ill prepared to deal with the inevitable “downs”.

  • Bik Byro

    Interesting to see that, as Groan put it “[men who] have served and Harry has fought” are being criticised by people who have never done anything more traumatic than save an excel spreadsheet in the wrong folder.

    • Lawrence Newman

      I’m sceptical Harry did any fighting.

      • Bik Byro

        We may never know the full extent of his involvement. From conversations I’ve had with colleagues who served in the tinbellies, I’m told he played a very active part. Whatever, he has still done more than people that stayed in their cosy offices and pontificated around the photocopier.

        • Lawrence Newman

          Yes, and I’m sure a few days in the desert was easier as he knew he had millions in his bank account , given to him by all the scummy plebs in their offices.

          Get a grip. The guy’s minted and he’s done nothing to earn it. He’s not even Charles’s son! lol He’s a Hewitt!

          • Bik Byro

            Wow, you really are a proper leftie aren’t you?

          • Lawrence Newman

            Er, I’m as conservative as they come. I’m a nationalist. Anti globalization. Anti mass immigration. Anti EU.

            Your logic: hur he dislikes the pointless scrounging royal family, hur worra lefty.

            You’re the mirror image of the people who call anyone who opposes immigration ‘far right’.

          • Bik Byro

            If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck … it’s a leftie. Now tell us about your time in Helmand. Oh, you can’t, you spent your life looking after the office stationery cupboard. Then from your cosy little house, comfy armchair with a cup of tea and digestives, you pontificate on people who have actually been out there.

          • Lawrence Newman

            1. Afghanistan is a pointlesss war that we have not won and cannot win.

            2. Afghanistan is not defence of the UK, and has made the UK less safe.

            3. None of us on this page will ever have the comfort Harry has, no matter how hard we work, because we do no get millions in welfare cheques .

            4. Most of the people defending paying millions to these worthless traitors, will moan about the ‘feckless’ ‘lazy’ people who make the ‘lifestyle choice’ to be on JSA or ESA, even though for most it’s peanuts and a temporary safety net. But because these traitors are ‘royal’, you’re happy to hand them millions in taxpayers’ money because muh tradition.

            5. I’m for stopping the 10 billion a year in foreign aid. Is that too ‘left wing’ for you? What’s the betting most people on here would agree with me? But while paying for African despots’ mercedes is just ghastly, they’re okay with paying for Rolls royces for a much more polite and educated Gallagher family from Shameless.

            6. I’m not even automatically against the concept of a Royal Family. If it had some logical reason like defence of the nation, e.g. the Queen stepping in to stop the treacherous third world invasion, then I’d support them. But it’s quite clear they have no power whatsoever.

            What you immediately call ‘left wing’ is simply critical thought. You defend this Harry chacter because muh royalty but you wouldn’t support giving millions to a soldier from a Mancunian council estate. Nigel Farage has actually defended and helped this nation but I bet you wouldn’t support taxpayers giving him millions.

            Because you have no reasoned argument, you resort to ‘muh you’ve not went to Helmand’. No, because I’m too intelligent. I don’t support Afghanistan, Libya or Iraq, because they make no logical sense, cost us a fortune and have endangered us all here in blighty.

          • John C

            And you know that for a fact?
            Pathetic.

          • Lawrence Newman

            Yes, I do.

          • Lawrence Newman

            I also know he’s a Hewitt.

  • Michael990

    Good article, but needs a subeditor to correct the missing words and other errors.

  • Under-the-weather

    Child labour comes from poverty, and an aspect of life in large families with single income. what are their options, do they even have parents or guardians?. What about the children who live on the streets of Brazil, or those born into servitude in India?

    More importantly what would happen to them if we stopped buying mobile phones?

    • TheRightToArmBears

      Bring them all here. We’re a rich country.
      Tell our poor to give up their place on the waiting list for a council house, already allocated to Charlie’s Muslim friends.
      Its easy to cure everyone else’s problems if you forget those of our own deserving.

      • John C

        Yup. Unlimited space for houses on the Green Belt. And that’s environmentally friendly, too.

  • Cogito Dexter

    “They would have been better to stick with the army” you write… and instantly write off the many ex-army people who have suffered with PTSD causing the failure of marriages, loss of jobs, homelessness and – through failed affectation of the ‘stiff upper lip’ – fallen into severe mental illness and end up at risk to themselves and others.

    Why is it so wrong to have a kinder society? Why is it so wrong for men to display their emotions and seek help in addressing them? Why won’t you accept that trauma can be mental as well as physical? Just because offering a supportive environment to your son was unwelcome *to you* doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be offered to others. Your conclusion would seem to be that just because people are suffering elsewhere in the world then we shouldn’t bother about people who might be suffering here in different ways – more particularly because you don’t appear to believe that they’re suffering at all. To that extent, I feel sorry for your son. It may well be that by the time he reaches Prince Harry’s age, he may well need to seek counselling himself for having felt the need to suppress his emotions in the face of his own father’s death. As a parent, you should be aching for the possibility for him to exorcise those demons in whatever way is most appropriate – and if that means seeking mental health assistance, then so be it – and not deny that they exist!

    • Groan

      “failed affectation of the ‘stiff upper lip'”. I do think this is a terrible myth. Having good colleagues who were soldiers in NI “Troubles” I suspect that warriors returning from such small wars find an uncomprehending populace. From family and personal experience I suspect lips were not nearly so “stiff” following WW2. Its just that men only shared with men and there was some recognition in public discourse that some kindness needed to be extended to those with “shell shock” etc. I really do think that there was sharing and some sort of support, its just it was done in words and ways we now don’t recognise (often couched in religious terms). Not that I think things were perfect just that in some ways being not perfect or having travails was more “normal” then.

    • John Thomas

      “Why is it wrong …” – Dexter, mate, what is wrong is the over-emphasis people give to EITHER excessive emotionalism or excessive “stiff upper-lip” keeping-it-all-in stuff. What is needed, for a sane person/society is that there is a balance between the two, not a wallowing in one or total clamming up into the fortress of the other. But our society… it always has to be excess, one way or the other.

    • mudlark2

      It’s the one size fits all aspect to these public outpourings I find ridiculous. We are all individuals and the idea that everyone wants to open up to complete strangers employed by the state is absurd. There is also the issue of privacy and how likely it will be that these supposedly confidential exchanges will be recorded by the database state and used in the future for possibly malign purposes.

    • Lawrence Newman

      PTSD from war is a separate issue. Hewitt’s son does not have PTSD.

    • John C

      Big difference between seeking help and blabbing to the papers.
      Next!

  • Busy Mum

    Once more unto the couch, dear friends, and let us fill the ears of the shrink with our English whines…

    Harry, your illustrious ancestor and namesake would be ashamed of you.

    This is what happens when we are told to believe in ourselves. ‘Ourself’ isn’t always up to the job and we end up dependent on fellow human beings.

  • CRSM

    The thing ‘Harry’ needs to do first is to come to terms with the identity of his real father.

    • Lawrence Newman

      You are not allowed to say such truthful things!

  • Baron

    Spot on, Kathy, and forcefully argued, too, except that in our age where emotions have taken over rational thought it will change nothing, it will be left to the newcomers to get us real again, painful though it will be, but that’s what we deserve.

    • TheRightToArmBears

      Newcomers?
      Are you referring to the followers of the religion of peace and tolerance that Charlie is so keen on?
      They’ll certainly get us real again, Islamic, not Christian, though.

  • TheRightToArmBears

    I thought the royal family’s job was to protect and preserve the sovereignty of this nation.

    His grandmother signed away the sovereignty she swore to protect and preserve when she cheerfully signed four bills into Acts of Parliament, given her by Heath, Thatcher, Major and Brown.

    She could have said to each ‘You are asking me to break my coronation oath. Take this back to the House and tell them they must publicly say they wish me to break my oath, and then I will sign. But not before.’

    None of those bills would have come back, because no prime minister would admit what being done.

    But it seems none of the Windsor family are up to the job.

    • Uusikaupunki

      I would have put it this way…”But it seems none of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha family are up to the job of looking after British interests…..”

    • John C

      Yep. Utterly disgusting dereliction of duty.

      • Lawrence Newman

        Yet you still defend them.

    • she

      I agree . Whether she likes it or not she has a political role in protecting us from the political classes attempts to hand over their responsibilities (and our rights) to an unelected E.U. commission. Some years ago a petition was organised to make her aware that many of us were unhappy that treaties were being signed on our behalf that did just that, so she surely must have been aware of the situation. My guess is that it was all too controversial and she feared the future of the monarchy was in danger if she became involved. That was more important to her than the future of the country.

  • Be-Bop Evola

    Actually, Glenda has blubbed twice in public, the virtue signalling leftist old crone that she is. Which is twice more than either William, Harry, Kate or any of The Next Generation has. The first time she blubbed, it was over Aberfan. Only kidding – it was the decommissioning of her Royal Yacht. The second time she cried, it was over the horrendous crimes of The Moors Murderers. Only kidding again, it was over another Royal playground, Windsor Castle, going up in flames. She is a humanitarian to the last and an example to us all. God Bless You, Ma’am.

    • grimble55

      Well said.

  • treacle

    I am glad that someone has come out and said this. All the royals should follow the example of the Queen, and maintain a dignified silence about things that upset them. If they behave like here-today-gone-tomorrow celebrities, the public will grow tired of them, and will no longer be willing to support them. This is not the first time that Harry has spoken out about his troubles. He was on TV a year or two ago moaning about how difficult it was to find a girlfriend. Now it’s “mental health problems” – even though he does not actually claim, or appear to be, mentally ill. He also claimed to have had “a breakdown”. Of course, he didn’t actually have a nervous breakdown. He just likes throwing these terms around in a bid for sympathy. It’s not attractive or pleasant, and it will do him and the royal family no good in the long term.

    • TheRightToArmBears

      It appears that she rarely had contact with her children, resulting in Charlie needing a mother-substitute instead of a wife, and the rest of them unable to maintain stable relationships.

      • treacle

        I don’t see what that has to do with Harry’s washing his linen in public.

        • TheRightToArmBears

          You commended her ‘dignified silence about things that upset them’.
          I commented that Harry is a product of what you found admirable.

          • treacle

            But Harry is not one of the Queen’s children.

    • alecto

      A few weeks ago Harry was complaining about press intrusion and next minute he’s bearing his soul to the media.

      • Lawrence Newman

        That’s what luvvies do.

  • Lawrence Newman

    I’m a nationalist. Therefore I can’t possibly support the treacherous Royal Family, who are nothing more than the biggest welfare spongers in the country. If they actually protected the British people I would defend them, but they sat back and did nothing while our country was systematically ruined.

    • John C

      You don’t know what ‘nationalist’ means.
      I suspect you mean ‘republican’, but who can tell?

      • Lawrence Newman

        You obviously don’t know what it means. Nationalism does not mean supporting or worshipping traitors. You’re thinking of blind patriotism, eg supporting Tony Blair and his lies about wmds simply because he was the British PM.

        • John C

          Nonsense. Ditto your other post.
          Blocked.

          • Lawrence Newman

            “blocked’

            Not an argument.

      • timbazo

        It’s disgraceful how Lawrence Newman criticises the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Anyone would think that they had a German name.

        • John C

          Do you have a point?

  • grimble55

    The author appears to be a time-traveller from another age.

    “It is the end of that era to be sure unless the Princes wake up to the perils of modernity and the dangers of the liberal Left’s self-serving claptrap.”

    Eh?? What are these “perils of modernity”? The perils of the internet enabling ill-informed drivel written by bitter old women to be disseminated to a global audience for the first time in history? Yep, I guess that truly is a horror of the modern age.

    And it would certainly break the habit of a lifetime for the author to manage to get through a column on any subject under the sun without desperately crowbarring in an unflattering reference to the “liberal Left”….. though of course what is so great about being illiberal is never detailed.

    But in this context one has to ask what the bloody hell “serves” this “liberal Left” in a public figure speaking about his mental health issues. Hint Gyngell: just sticking in a random selection of your hackneyed old politically-motivated insults does not a coherent argument make.

    As you’re a pensioner, best stick to what you’re good at – watching Cash in the Attic with a cup of tea and a nice chocolate digestive.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Empty rhetoric.

      The ‘liberal left’ are anything but liberal.

      • timbazo

        ‘The ‘liberal left’ are anything but liberal.’

        Which is why this phrase should not be used by anyone interested in truthful debate.

        • Lawrence Newman

          Well that’s what they call themselves. I sometimes call them progressives since the call themselves that too, even though that’s misleading too.

          If we all call them cultural marxists, we’ll be called conspiracy theorists and followers of Alex Jones.

          • timbazo

            Try ‘regressives’.

  • Under-the-weather

    The issue isn’t so much about stiff upper lip or recognizing and dealing with mental health, it’s more about a recognition that life is extremely hard for a lot of people, and that in many respects we can only deal with those issues by dealing with the beam in our own eye, before trying to remove the mote in somebody else’s. Or in other words becoming very mentally strong to begin with. If we’re not centred properly and have the highest of personal ethics we just create more suffering, the definition of evil. We can’t remove what might be the only local opportunity for a child to create income in a hostile environment just to placate our own sense of virtue. That path has been chosen because it’s the best there is.
    Dr Jordan Peterson psychologist, advising millennial how to change the world. Change yourself first.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=&v=XbOeO_frzvg

    • timbazo

      I have only recently become aware of Dr Peterson due to the controversy over transgender pronouns. To my detriment as I find what he says on many issues very interesting.

      I’ve watched other videos on the issues such as the gender pay gap that are convulsing universities in North America. Many young women are rejecting subjects such as physics and engineering in preference for subjects that offer scope for ‘self-reflection’. Cristina Hoff Summers and others also highlight the way in which feminist academics are refusing to accept nationally collected data in preference for their own small and usually biased surveys. We are in danger of moving to a world where policy is decided by the personal experience of a small elite rather than the needs of the population as a whole.

  • You’re a disgusting excuse for a human being Ms Gyngell, full of hate, bile and ready to assert your vile opinions with any dishonesty, exaggeration or deceit that suits you.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Oh no, someone isn’t parroting ‘progressive’ ideology and has a different view. Hater!

      Triggered.

    • James

      Better find a safe space Pete old fella.

    • alecto

      What rot! I think her articles are excellent.

  • timbazo

    ‘ … despite the emotional roller coaster of their childhood and the affluent neglect that at times marked their upbringing, something clearly went right – a loving father, good and attentive schooling and caring grandparents maybe.’ You clearly weren’t listening, Kathy, perhaps because you had already made up your mind about what you wanted to write. Prince Harry was saying that it ‘went wrong’ – until he sought professional advice.

    Harry also mentioned the support of his brother. Why not his father, whose sensitivity was such that he expected his bride barely out of school to accept that he continued relations with his mistress? We can’t be sure but the omission may be a statement in itself. Why no mention of a grandmother, known for refusing to hold her young son’s hand in public? Or the maternal grandmother who dumped her daughter in a boarding school in order to run off with another man? The decision to force the adolescent princes to march behind their mothers’ coffin in public was crass. I don’t know whether the princes were offered counselling or asked whether they wanted to return to boarding school. These are however relevant questions. I hope they received better advice than suggestions from well-meaning teachers to put their energies into rugby or cadet corps. The answers to my questions will probably be obliquely answered in time as William and Kate decide how to bring up their own children and also as Harry perhaps brings up his own.

    There are questions to ask about a culture where everyone is encouraged to express every emotion in public. The risk is that people lose a sense of what is serious and what is not. I find it odd, however, that a major contributor to a website, which is in part dedicated to supporting the idea of the family, should criticise a man who spoke out about the trauma of losing his mother at the age of 12. Or does Kathy Gyngell see boarding school as a perfect substitute for the family?

    Finally, ‘therapy culture’ did not ‘trump my child’s right to and desire for privacy.’ It was adults who refused to listen to your child and get your child’s freely given agreement, before embarking on the exercise that they wanted to conduct. Perhaps rather like the adults who refused to listen to Prince Harry when he was 12 years old.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Since when does supporting family mean supporting the expansion of the public sector via the employment of a legion of professional head nodders so people can tell them how sad they are that their parents died? Because you can be sure, that’s exactly what the people fawning over Harry Hewitt want.

      • timbazo

        Never said it did.

        Supporting the idea of the family means supporting the argument that children are best brought up by the child’s father and mother. Telling a 12 year old to get over the loss of his mother is no different from telling millions of children that they should get over the absence of their fathers from their lives, which is a main cause of so many of the problems that afflict this country.

        • Lawrence Newman

          It depends on whether the father buggered off by choice or the mother left him and then stopped him from seeing his kids, which seems to be the more common scenario in this anti-white male feminist age.

          • timbazo

            No it doesn’t depend ‘on whether the father buggered off by choice or the mother left him and then stopped him from seeing his kids’. Both actions are wrong and should be condemned. men have a responsibility to financially and emotionally support their children and women do not have the right to deny their children a father.

          • Lawrence Newman

            You misunderstand as I didn’t explain myself properly. Both are wrong. But if a father has died, went missing or buggered off voluntarily, there’s nothing that can be done other than to tell the kid to get over it. The difference between those situations and the one in which fathers are denied access to their kids, is the latter is supported by the legal system, it seems.

  • James

    As Malcolm Muggeridge so eloquently opined years ago, psycho-bablers are merely western society’s version of the witch doctor. Charlatans, one and all.

    • Busy Mum

      True. I have pointed out to my children’s schools that their ‘counsellors’ are to today’s children what ‘chaplains’ would have been to their grandparents. Tellingly, my generation had neither.

      • James

        Basically they’re the State’s henchmen.

        • James

          Perhaps they’ve surreptiously filled the void left by our right-on generation. Our parents had the best of it in that case.

        • Busy Mum

          Absolutely. There is a man+woman team of school counsellors near me, based in a primary school, but spending days in the other schools in the area, both primary and secondary. Guess what their business is called? Rainbow Counselling.
          I am not joking. And schools with tight, very tight budgets, are paying for these people to come in and ‘deal’ with children….

          • James

            Home schooling is now the only option. Letting queers and other assorted social/psychiatric cripples into schools is beyond the pale.

          • Under-the-weather

            Very Christian, thanks for that.

          • Under-the-weather

            it’s for children who are suffering from abuse or living in the homes of parents who abuse themselves. Since they are the ones who often end up as single parents or divorced with long term term psychological problems, it’s cheapest and kindest in the long run to find the facilities at school.

          • Busy Mum

            I can tell you from first-hand experience that the counsellors try and get hold of as many children as possible. I have lost count of how many children from stable backgrounds have ‘needed’ school counselling.

          • Under-the-weather

            What is actually a stable background, who knows who has a stable background.

          • Busy Mum

            Oh, so we all need counselling then? This is precisely what the mental healthists want us to think.

          • Under-the-weather

            We all need ‘access’ to counselling, counselling itself isn’t indoctrination.

          • Lawrence Newman

            We used to call it socialising and we never needed more public service workers to do it. You could speak to a relative, a neighbour or go down the pub. Mind you, then you wouldn’t be able to moan about Tories cutting services.

          • Under-the-weather

            Counsellors are professionals

          • Lawrence Newman

            Professional head nodders. It’s not science. Other witch doctors give them witch doctor certificates and people like you are impressed.

            I’ve went to mental health nurses, psychologists and psychotherapists. Every one of them listened to me get angry about being circumcised without consent by the NHS. They nodded their heads.

            I went in mutilated, angry and unhappy. I came out mutilated, angry and unhappy. I could do their jobs easily without any training because I can nod my head, ask irrelevant questions about your childhood and tell people to eat healthy and get exercise.

            It is a racket.

            There is no evidence talking to witch doctors makes people happy or solves their problems.

          • Under-the-weather

            Well I’ve also been on counselling, and that isn’t my experience. It’s about becoming self aware, and only from self awareness can we start to address our own issues. People who are not professionals don’t know how to put the right questions because they don’t understand what the underlying problems are likely to be. Try reading a few books

          • James

            Their shtick has no connection with scientific analysis whatsoever. They all contradict themselves over the same matters. If boring someone stupid talking about oneself is so efficacious, why not go down the the pub and bash the barman’s ear or have a yak over the fence to a neighbour. Witch doctors one and all. They’re also main players in the outrageous involuntary Divorce Industrial Regime and benefit both professionally and financially from destroying families and kidnapping children from legally unimpeachable citizens.

          • Lawrence Newman

            Just like they are desperate to assign conditions like bipolar and autism and ADHD to kids now. Maybe it’s because basically 100%of teachers now are ‘progressive’ due to the intense political brainwashing they undergo. All of this serves to increase the size of the public sector.

            I won’t have kids because it would break my heart to see them turned into brainwashed left wing zombies by the education system .

          • Busy Mum

            It happened to one of my daughters – I refused to play ball – it was the kindest thing I could do for her. Hopefully one day she will work it out for herself.

          • Lawrence Newman

            Well progressives caused the epidemic of divorce and single parenthood due to decades of supporting absolute social freedom and stopping all stigma that was attached to those phenomena. You won’t cure the problems progressives caused via talking, you’ll only cure them by returning to the model progressives ripped apart.

          • Under-the-weather

            You can’t ‘force’ people into marriage, neither can you ‘force’ them to stay in marriage, you can only help them to form strong relationships with other people, which is the basis for counselling

          • Lawrence Newman

            Who said anything about force? People weren’t forced in the late 19th century. It’s about culture. Using stigma wisely. When you grant absolute freedom from consequence and judgement, you can’t act surprised when the majority choose what’s easiest for them rather than what’s best for them, their kids, their family and the country.

            Without the welfare state and divorce law that grants a woman half of her husband’s wealth despite not earning it, single motherhood and divorce would be a tiny fraction of what it is now.

            As I said, progressives socially engineer and cause these problems, then they recognise the problems caused but instead of owning up and reversing progressive laws and policies, they blame the problem on things conservative, e.g. In this case male stoicism, which is actually and intrinsically male characteristic, not a social construct, and is one of the most admirable male qualities. If progressives have their way, men will be encouraged to moan about how sad they are 24/7, making them feel like victims, and it’ll lead to more unhappiness and likely more suicide.

            The rise in mental health problems is due to progressives encouraging people, even kids, to diagnose themselves as mentally ill. Then they call for more NHS funding to deal with a problem they caused, which is just plain narcissism-fuelled hypochondria.

          • Under-the-weather

            Unfortunately the problems in society are not going to be solved by armchair enthusiasts deciding on who and isn’t mentally ill. While there are people who are being encouraged to consider themselves so, there are also people who are, at risk of, who are being abused etc, and do need access to professionals.

          • Lawrence Newman

            If they cared about abuse, they’d publicly ask for the routine infant male genital mutilation to be prosecuted.

            Yet they think talking about being sad about mum dying is more important.

          • Under-the-weather

            It isn’t mental illness to be sad at the death of a relative, but bottling all that sadness up (and it can take different forms), can lead to mental illness.

            There’s a lot involved in mutilating children at birth, maybe you should have seen a psychologist rather than a counsellor. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

  • 5th column traitors

    Kathy and Laura. You may be interested to know that one of your posters on here is busy libelling Laura over on Guido Fawkes. The libellous comments are screen shotted and preserved.

  • Lawrence Newman

    I see Willy and Kate just accosted a Radio 1 DJ to virtue signal about how much they ‘support mental health’, whatever that means.

    This idea that talking about feelings helps people and we need to pay more people to listen to people talk about their feelings, is being promoted daily without challenge.

    Where is the scientific evidence talking about feelings to ‘experts’ results in any significant positive outcomes? Not one person has provided any. This exemplifies yet again that ‘progressivism’ is a religious ideology.

    • Busy Mum

      My opinion is that the mental healthists want us all to have a problem and to be too afraid of relying on our own judgment. The younger royals have fallen into the trap of becoming the poster boys and girls for this. Anybody who denies having a problem will be told that their denial and refusal to accept having a mental problem ‘is’ their mental problem.

      • Lawrence Newman

        It’s sinister, like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.

        • Busy Mum

          Absolutely. It’s a huge industry, so many people’s jobs depend on a continual supply of mentally ill children.

          • Lawrence Newman

            We’d be called mad by most for saying this, but it’s as clear as day. It’s like the modern Western feminist movement. They need to justify their existence so the can continue luring young people to their degree courses, get donations and funding and keep themselves in jobs.

            The UK used to build things. Now we pretend minds are broken so we can pretend to fix them.

          • Busy Mum

            The tragedy is that telling children their minds are broken, actually does break them.

          • Lawrence Newman

            Worst thing I ever did:

            Listen to my ex girlfriend’s advice to go to the doctor and tell him I was ‘depressed’. As soon as you do that, there’s a label on you, they throw pills at you, and it makes matters worse as you end up giving up work and struggling to get back into it again. Looking back I think the stiff upper lip would have worked for me in the long-term. They’re ruining lives with this psychobabble. But then progressivism thrives by creating victims, and it’s also highly profitable for the drugs industry.