Michael St George: Why we need to fight the Brexit battle all over again

Like many ConWom readers, I suspect, I spent the early dawn hours of Friday June 24, 2016, ecstatic that the British people had ignored the pro-EU hectoring of the massed ranks of the New Establishment and their globalist backers, and had voted to leave the EU. But the euphoria didn’t last very long.

Such was the furious reaction of the Remainer-Elites and their compliant media courtiers to this unexpected defeat that, before the day was out, I’d become convinced that while we had won the Referendum battle, we certainly hadn’t yet won the war, and that the celebrations of some, on the assumption that all that was needed to achieve Brexit had been done, were hubristic and perilously premature.

I even tweeted as much, as this selection from my Twitter timeline between early that Friday morning and late the same evening shows (with apologies for the profanities).

 

Sadly, this is precisely what happened after the Referendum. The Vote Leave campaign wound down, with its principal Conservative politicians diving into the internecine strife within their party from which its Remainers emerged predominant. Its successful CEO, Matthew Elliott, is now with the Legatum Institute.

On the Leave-EU side of the Brexit movement, a complacent Nigel Farage resigned as leader of UKIP to forge a new career in the media as the man who won the Brexit that hasn’t happened yet. UKIP has collapsed into virtual irrelevance after two credible replacements were seen off by its residual Farageistes. It is now led by a nonentity and is near-invisible.

A couple of pro-Brexit campaign groups persist, but they are mainly active on social media only. In effect, the loose coalition which delivered that historic vote by 17.4million people to retrieve their sovereign nation-state popular democracy from supranational unaccountable-elite technocracy has all but dissolved.

It’s my contention that this has been a catastrophic error: that developments, not only since the Referendum generally, but more recently specifically, are placing Brexit in ever-greater jeopardy; and that the Brexit movement needs to be reconstituted and go back on to a war footing, to fight for what the British people voted for, and even contest if need be the second referendum which I believe to be the Unreconciled Remainers’ objective.

Although the Leave coalition subsided, the Remain campaign never ceased. Readers will recall the ugly post-Referendum orgy of anger and hatred directed by ‘liberal’ Remainers and their cheerleaders at Leave voters, the constant attempts by the academic and judicial elite to delegitimise the Referendum result, and the sometimes fanatical anti-democratic polemic of, to name only two egregious but typical examples, the philosopher A C Grayling and Labour MP David Lammy, such as this only two days after Referendum Day.

It intensified once again during the Gina Miller litigation designed to facilitate a majority pro-Remain House of Commons vetoing the Government’s Article 50 notification. It lessened somewhat after Parliament voted by 494 votes to 122 to authorise the triggering of Article 50 by March 31, and matters reached a sort of uneasy equilibrium. But then came May’s ill-advised, mismanaged General Election.

When she and the Conservatives were returned drastically weakened, the Continuity-Remain movement was reinvigorated, and its political, civil service, media, academic and judicial channels have visibly stepped up their campaigning by several levels of magnitude. They’re making the running: they look increasingly confident that Brexit really can be stopped and the Referendum reversed, and a majority-Remain Government seems at best half-hearted in response.

Now the fight is intensifying even more with the tortuous – disentangling ourselves from 40 years of Brussels control over our statute book is a complicated process – passage through Parliament of the EU Withdrawal Bill. The parties of the pro-EU Left have made clear their intention to conduct a guerilla war against it, voting against even the clause setting out its overall purpose, aided by up to 15 Unreconciled-Remainer rebels on the Tory back benches, some with considerably less honourable motivations than others.
But if some of the amendments being proposed already seem very technical and legalistic, be prepared: worse is yet to come. In this very detailed long read published on November 12 at Brexit Central, Professor David Campbell of Lancaster University sets out how the legislative process of Brexit could become almost impenetrably bogged down in the morass of a quasi-constitutional conflict between Judiciary and Parliament over which has supremacy.

It doesn’t look impossible that this could establish the supremacy of the Judiciary over that of Parliament. Just think what that would do to the prospects of Brexit happening at all. That partly explains, in my view, why such an ardent anti-Brexiteer as Labour’s Keir Starmer is so keen to maintain the jurisdiction in post-Brexit Britain of the European Court of Justice.

Professor Campbell concludes that we might need an Assertion of Parliamentary Sovereignty Act to make Brexit tamper-proof from judicial-activist usurpation of the powers of Parliament to implement the express instruction of the electorate.

If the EU Withdrawal Bill is set to have a rocky passage through Parliament, imagine how difficult it would be for a minority Government to push legislation, whose effect would be to prevent the pro-Remain Judiciary from blocking Brexit on constitutional grounds, through a marginally pro-Remain Commons and a majority pro-Remain (despite unelected) Lords.

The signs are ominous. The EU is refusing to move on to talks about a post-Brexit trade relationship unless its exorbitant financial demands are agreed. Its intransigence is being encouraged by a UK media overwhelmingly hostile to Brexit and resolved to paint it in the worst possible light. Sir Humphrey, for whom Britain’s EU membership has been axiomatic for 40 years and who thinks Brexit a monumental folly of crude populism-appeasement, is dragging his feet.

The Government is being forced by its weakness and wafer-thin, DUP-dependent, majority into unwanted concessions. It’s conceding votes in Parliament on aspects of Brexit which, given the clear instruction delivered by the Referendum result, should no longer be in play at all. In these circumstances, that it might, to win a crucial vote, concede a second Referendum, either on the terms of our exit, or even on the decision itself to leave, can’t, in my view, be ruled out.



If that comes about, the Remainers will have achieved what has been their prime objective – and also the EU’s, because it has an unsavoury record of ignoring plebiscites with unwelcome outcomes and requiring electorates to vote again and again until they come up with the ‘right’ answer.

And then what? Unlike Vote Leave and Leave-EU, the pro-Remain Open Britain campaign has never wound down, and continues to make an anti-Brexit case. Continuity-Remain could gear up for a second EU Referendum comparatively quickly. The money would come flooding in.

Its victory, though, would be far from a foregone conclusion. Since June 2016, the electorate has seen the EU moving faster towards ever-greater integration and centralisation in ways the Remainers denied were even being contemplated. It’s seen how so many of the scaremongering predictions of Project Fear failed to materialise. A second Referendum could be won for another Leave vote.

But not without a campaign organisation. Even without a second Referendum, Brexit feels to be in enough danger to justify the reconstitution of the Leave coalition, if only to continue to make the case it made so effectively in the first half of 2016, and hold the Government’s feet to the fire. The Brexit movement needs to be re-created.


  • Roanoake

    War footing is right. The Government needs to get real quickly. If the Conservatives want to last as a party, they need to start respecting the electorate.

    • abragan

      They need to start respecting all of the electorate, remembering they didn’t gain a working majority in this year’s election

      • Roanoake

        They always say the people have spoken, they will listen, then they continue doing the same thing. It’s like watching someone with a head injury.

  • Colkitto03

    I am convinced that a second referendum would lead to a greater Leave victory. If there was any sustained polling show a change of mind then believe me, we would have heard about it.
    The financial apocalypse of Project Fear never happened
    EU citizens never flooded out of the country.
    Banks are not relocating (note the vast Goldman Sachs office under construction in London)

    But more than anything the incessant demands for money from the EU have exposed to the British people what our membership was all actually about.

    • captainslugwash

      In a free and fair election yes. Do any of us still have faith in the electoral system and the trustworthiness of those implementing it? Not to mention the State propaganda machine.
      Five years ago I would have thought anyone making my comment was a paranoid loon.

      • gunnerbear

        “Do any of us still have faith in the electoral system and the trustworthiness of those implementing it?” Strikes me that a tribal voters view of trust in the voting system is directly related to whether the voting system delivers the result the tribal voter wants…

      • lizmilton

        Agree 100%…all bought and paid for…see
        “Down the memory hole goes the truth.”

    • Reborn

      I’m sure that more people are against EU membership over the last year than before the referendum.
      However the remainers have a massive propaganda machine, especially the taxpayer funded BBC. Additionally, our level of ballot security is very low & subject to easily being corrupted.
      Although the BBC is still running programmes about immigrant staff shortages down to
      EU possible withdrawal , the latest ONS figures show that since we voted to regain our independence there have been increases in EU staff at the NHS & increased numbers
      of EU immigrants generally.

    • 39 Pontiac Dream

      Good comment. I, also, think that if we had a second referendum, leave would win by 60-40%. I don’t think the remainers have helped their cause by insulting and threatening anyone who voted for Brexit and the EU have shown themselves to be as dictatorial and protectionist as many always knew they were.
      I also believe that many who voted leave are ready for another fight should it occur.

      • martianonlooker

        If Birmingham (our second largest city) has a voting system that was described as ‘shaming a banana republic’ and Tower Hamlets is not that much different, then remainers would probably get some 90% of the vote a second time round.

      • Colkitto03

        Agreed! Also the Remain cause has no optimistic, positive or hopeful message and never will.

        • 39 Pontiac Dream

          They’d tell you they do. They’d say they’re optimistic about overturning the decision, that they’re positive we’re going to fail and they’re hopeful that the EU will take us back.
          But that’s just me splitting hairs.

          • Good job of it, at that. But that won’t sell. You know what might though, “Make Britain Great Again”. Trump’s main secret is that he is legitimately and outspokenly for something that we care about -America. Perfect? Hardly, but then, he never said he was.

            There are, I think, at least as many upsides to Brexit, as to remain, probably many more especially for one of the premier trading countries in the world. There are an amazing number of products made in the world that have never bothered to try to sell into the EU, because of its corrupt bureaucracy, that are available many places, and for far less than what you pay for comparable products. You can quite simply do better.

            Granted you Brits don’t wear your patriotism on your sleeves like us Yanks do (understandable, given our histories, but also why we usually assimilate immigrants better) but to those able to discern, it’s pretty obviously there.

          • gunnerbear

            “There are an amazing number of products made in the world that have never bothered to try to sell into the EU….” No seller ignores a market of around 400m people with cash…

          • Don’t bet the farm on that. Innovation comes mainly from small companies, and the oligarchy of the EU is simply not worth it. Particularly since it is a dying market, middle eastern immigrants do not comprise a useful consumer base, and Europe is not reproducing itself. Why bother?

            America is a richer market of almost 400 million people, China is bigger, but poorer, as is India, likely that is also true for Russia. All are less regulated. South America and Africa are both rather corrupt, but compared to Europe it’s small scale and manageable graft. There is a reason why the US walked away from a trade deal with the EU, preferring WTO terms.

          • gunnerbear

            No, the US walked away from the EU because it can’t push the EU around like to could if the US could deal with individual EU member states….

          • What on earth do we need them for? In a score of years they’ll be Russian/Iranian client states. We’ll still be here, taking their best and brightest. Trump said it right, we’ll do what is right for the US, and we expect others to do what is best for their countries, we’ll win enough, we always have, that’s how we got rich. What do the French have? OK wine, but not really better than ours or Australia’s. The Germans? Cars, mostly made in the US, Britain, and China, and increasingly designed in the US as well. BTW, a prediction, NATO will end the day they stand up a European army, that will make you (and France) Europe’s nuclear guardian, not us. Good luck.

          • 39 Pontiac Dream

            Many of us are patriotic but, to our media, it is seen as dirty. They have wrapped patriotism up as nationalistic and populist and have even connived our politicians into believing the same.
            ‘Make Britain Great Again’ wouldn’t wash here because of the Trump moniker and what our social elite would class as tainted. It’d be another reason for them to create the narrative that Brexit was a racist decision rather than one of opportunity.
            As long as those, who believe Brexit was a great decision, stay strong and rally once more, should we need to, we’ll be more than fine.

          • I recognize that, of course. But you guys are at least as smart as we are, you do need a catchphrase, motto, whatever you’d call it. Something short and sweet, something positive. Something based on your history, all I wanted to say really is, stay positive, and make it memorable and short.

          • Jethro

            In 1940-ish, the ‘catchphrase’ was ‘Very Well then, Alone!’ (I might have mis-placed the comma); to our un-representatives, I suppose we might have used the exhortation, ‘Just do it!’, but perhaps those words have been Tm’d.
            I so much agree with what your posts have said: in this Country, we’ve been brow-beaten and shamed by Socialists since Major Attlee’s time, into being, at best, apologetic for England, and ‘Labour and The Gulag’ shows how despicably unpatriotic our Socialists were, from the time of Ramsay MacDonald – willing to undercut and put out of work ‘their own people’ in the cause of advancing The Revolution.

            Mind you, we’ve not exactly been helped by Administration after Administration in America encouraging our Governments to go against the National Interest – Suez, being a potent example, and our entrapment in the the E.U. was considerably helped by the encouragement of the U.S., as, indeed, was the precipitate dismantlement of The British Empire: an end also striven for by the Bolsheviks (see ‘Labour & the Gulag)…

          • Very true, I don’t know where the comma was either, but it was a good one then – and now for that matter.

            That’s something maybe it’s easier, on average, for us to see, but there is so much for Britain, and yes, England in particular, to be proud of.

            Suez, well I’ve come to believe was as much a matter of miscommunication as anything – we weren’t clear and neither were you guys. It just sucked all the way around. The EU, yeah, the EEC looked like it made sense, from our seats, for you, but that was a different Europe. We were (and are) normally anti-colonial, well, what would you expect from your first rebellious colony.

            But there is also this, most of us these days (well those of us that know some history) are simply awed by your stand (and that of the Empire) in 1940. There are a lot of us that partied pretty heartily after the Brexit results came in. Rather like Churchill on Pearl Harbor day, actually. Mostly, we don’t give a damn about Europe, but someplace in my files, I’ve a map of how we view Europe, the UK is labelled simply, “Mummy”. It’s quite true.

            Like I said about Trump earlier, we’re far from perfect, but we do know who our friends are, and who merely wants a free ride.

          • Jethro

            …didn’t Eisenhower – too late, of course – regret having pulled the rug from us over Suez, declaring it his worst error? John Foster Dulles was, I think, the presiding genius…

          • I think so, at least I read it someplace, and it does seem plausible. Dulles was always a wild card, that not even Ike always managed to control. A bit of a hole in my knowledge, that gap that happens when we are too young to remember and not old enough to hear about it in school.

          • gunnerbear

            “Suez, well I’ve come to believe was as much a matter of miscommunication as anything – we weren’t clear and neither were you guys.” Miscommuntication….no the US intervention over Suez was a deliberate an well executed plan to deal with any thoughts the UK had that it was still a world power in a bi-polar world. Plus of course it stopped the Russians getting too annoyed as well.

          • 39 Pontiac Dream

            Farage had ‘Taking back Control’ until the Tories nicked it and made it boring. The Tories do have a tendency of doing that – taking catchphrases and making them boring. When Trump said ‘Let’s make America great again’, he said it with gusto and he really meant it. If that’d come from Theresa May, it’d have been insincere and yet another stupid catchphrase which would have been forgotten in no time.
            To be honest, I’m not a fan of catchphrases. I prefer politicians to speak openly and honestly – that’s why I like Jacob Rees-Mogg. No bullshit, no spin, just flat out honesty.

          • True.

            Couldn’t agree more, but then we’re not the average voter, either. I do as well, about the best either of our countries have produced in quite a while.

          • gunnerbear

            JRM – a man so honest he calls for lower taxes for his mates in the City but votes, yes votes for higher VAT and APD. He also voted against improving the Forces Covenant…. …look up his voting record….he’s also in favour of HS2 despite speaking against…. …some honesty, eh?

      • gunnerbear

        “I don’t think the remainers have helped their cause by insulting and threatening anyone who voted…” On this very thread commentators make comments about how those that didn’t vote Leave are “traitors”…. …I know ex-members of HM Forces who voted Remain..are they traitors or just people who hold a different view to you..?

  • paul parmenter

    There remains the question of just how influential campaign groups are in persuading the electorate. If Project Fear couldn’t do it, what could? Campaigners always like to believe that either they or their opponents are capable of swaying huge proportions of the population. Just look at the way politicians talk down to us, as if they were lecturing wide-eyed children. But that belief is based on the assumption that the average voter cannot and will not think for themselves. That will always be true of some, but maybe we should have more faith in the majority.

    If Brexit is finally thwarted and we stay stuck in the EU, I think there will be widespread outrage and hell to pay for a very large number of our MPs and many others too. It will mean that any bond of trust between rulers and the ruled, however shaky it might have been at times, will be clearly broken, perhaps irretrievably. This country will split down the middle and may never be the same.

    • lizmilton

      I think the present rash of “sex crimes” is a serious attempt to undermine the credibility of Parliament

  • TheRightToArmBears

    The Tory party has never relinquished its addiction and love of the EU.
    May, under instruction from CCHQ and Brussels, is prevaricating us into remaining shackled to the EU corpse.
    Remain will never risk another referendum. They know they’d lose it. Hence the death by a thousand cuts.
    Salvation is likely to come from the Visigrad countries leaving the EU, driven to that course of action by Merkel trying to force them to accept her Muslim millions.

    • Simon Platt

      It does seem like that.

  • Ravenscar

    another call me dave cast iron promises – “I will invoke Art 50 on the day after a vote leave victory” ie the 24th June 2016.

    Obviously the remoaniacs running the party – EUphiliac tory patricians not least in major, tarzan and clarke – had a plan B – get May installed and stall, stymie, prevent, prevaricate, prognosticate, propagandize “it will be terrible out ot the protective bosom of the embrace of the Empire of subservience” blah, blah……. until the end of the process by which time the British would get precisely what they didn’t vote for.

    The guiding hand of Berlin is always there, they always get their way and Britain leaving the EU is not, I repeat NOT in the plan.

    And that way, only puts on the nation on a direct path which eventually leads to insurrection,

    Throughout history, Totalitarianism doesn’t alter much, Barosso let it slip, calling it the “Empire” – it was a pretty open secret was it not? Aye, the Bruxelles model is the Roman Empire, the legions fought mainly to maintain the hegemony of Imperial Rome, in a similar vein and copied straight from the ‘Empire textbook’ – Berlin-Brussels seeks desperately to create a new model army – the EUropean Army in order to protect their interests, manny macron and merkl to the fore.

    Brexit? Out – it will never happen, the whole Empire has to crack first and that end is by far the more likely scenario.

    • Reborn

      Only the disingenuous or the ill educated talk of “Brussels”.
      Everything is run from Berlin.
      The whole scheme dates at least to the 1930s & was encouraged by elements
      in the US government, exemplified by the US ambassador to the UK of the period.
      Joeseph Kennedy, Jew hating, English hating, pro German.
      Germany is not a country with fixed borders & constitution like many others, notably the UK.
      It is a series of states & regions with much in common culturally, and has been for a thousand years involved in expansionist tendencies.
      Bearing in mind germanic political culture & its geography, it makes an obvious
      basis for the United Staes of Europe.
      We are not in Europe culturally or geographically.

      • Ravenscar

        That is, a rather insightful post and pretty much not far at all from how I see it, MittelEuropa never really went away – did it and it was always meant to be inclusive of ‘the west’ – allus alles.

        • Reborn

          I’m a great fan of German visual arts & music.
          When I was a college lecturer in art history, I got it stuck in my mind that
          in 1789,, Germany consisted of 1789 States, some of them the size of
          a small village with associated industry.
          I couldn’t believe this to be literally true, so did not pass the allegation on.
          I am currently reading The Shortest History of Germany by James Hawes
          & I find a similar allegation there. Not indexed, so I can’t give chapter & verse.
          I think we must regard Germany as a region with linguistic & cultural characteristics, rather than a nation state.
          And that those facts have made it the obvious centre of power for
          The United Staes of Europe, complete with State of the Union address
          from its unelected President.

          • gunnerbear

            Germany is a nation state – just federal in nature, like the US….just as we intended it to be after WWII.

          • Reborn

            A nation state with infinitely flexible borders.
            Borders that have changed massively since the fall of the USSR.
            Borders that allow it to discipline/dismiss neighbouring governments of which it disapproves

          • gunnerbear

            “Borders that allow it to discipline/dismiss neighbouring governments of which it disapproves.” Wow…when did that happen. Borders changed massively since the fall of the USSR – yep, the German people opted for Unification. As to borders changing, it wasn’t that long ago the RoI didn’t exist…so what’s your point?

      • MrVeryAngry

        If that’s true then the really clever trick by the Germans was to stop trying to conquer France militarily but to set about it economically and financially. By essentially buying France by handing is cash to pay its subsidy vote gaining game which passes for democracy in France.

        • Reborn

          That very clever trick has been financed not only by Germany, but by the
          UK, second only to Germany in subsidising the EU.
          Now that is really a very very clever trick
          Especially as Germany paid the UK no reparations after its last attempt.

          • MrVeryAngry

            all sadly true. And that is thanks to the deceit of Heath et al.

      • gunnerbear

        “Germany is not a country with fixed borders & constitution like many others, notably the UK.” That will be news to this lot… http://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/EN/Das-Gericht/Gericht-und-Verfassungsorgan/gericht-und-verfassungsorgan_node.html The UK is notable in that it does not have a formal written constitution…

        • And is even more notable as a country that has done quite well by its citizens without one. Whereas in the US, we have one, and (mostly) enforce it above all fad and trends, and have done about the same. You know who had the best Constitution of all? The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, might have been a paradise, if they had enforced what it said.

          In many ways, it is not what what one says, and writes down, it is what one does. Seems to be in the blood for some of us, strangely we all seem to speak English, but not for many others.

        • Reborn

          Any fule know the UK does not have a written constitution.
          What it implicitly states is that one government cannot effectively
          ditch our independence & hand us over to foreign rule.

          • gunnerbear

            “We need a head of state who refuses to sign off bills that effectively destroy us, even if that precipitates the mother of all constitutional crises.” I think we had a Civil War a while back to settle that point.

          • Reborn

            Probably time for another.
            Let’s face it, if nearly half the population wanted us to capitulate to
            Germany in 1940, there would have been one.

          • gunnerbear

            But we’re not at war with a NATO ally….we’re involved with talks about a political issue i.e leaving the EU.

          • gunnerbear

            Oh…those bills signed off by HM were presented to her by a democratically elected government….so are you saying you only agree with democracy provided it gives an answer you like?

      • JabbaPapa

        It’s been ongoing since the grotesquely politically destructive Charlemagne thought that dividing up Europe for his sons was a “fantastic” “good” “idea” …

        Only his active destruction of Latin as a living language was worse …

    • JabbaPapa

      another call me dave cast iron promises – “I will invoke Art 50 on the day after a vote leave victory” ie the 24th June 2016.

      The main reason why there was a delay in the triggering of Article 50 (the main reason, though most certainly not the only one) is that those who drafted the 2015 Referendum Act pure and simple forgot to include a binding legal provision in the original Bill for the process of implementation of a potential Leave result.

      A somewhat incompetent collective oversight, but these sorts of things can and do happen from time to time.

      • Ravenscar

        Noted.

        We shall see, I really, dearly wish that the Tories pull it off – Brexit but know in my heart that whatever concoction is cobbled and signed, it will not really be an Exit until…………

        Until and as you probably already know, we won’t be out until we extricate ourselves and totally from the malignant aegis of the ECHR and her illegitimate half sister the ECJ and don’t tell me that they are ‘different’ and that we ‘freely signed up to the Geneva conv….. blah, blah – because what we signed in 1950 is not the monster it has shape shifted into and anyway Churchill and British lawyers drafted it for the others [the nationless Europeans] – certainly not ever designed for Brits – we had our own Human rights enshrined.

        Out means out, I’d rather we [the UK] walked right this minute – we’d do OK and most probably far better than that.

        • Jethro

          … better still, let a Tardis allow us to have left (‘With one bound, he was free!’) the day after the Referendum. What dire things would have fallen upon us? Would the Sun really have sulkily refused to rise? Would application of just laws have ceased? Would merchants have refused to sell to, or buy from, other merchants?

          • Ravenscar

            I think that, the sun would have gloriously at that, persevering, flashing golden wheels, continued riding her chariot across our sky and that her little reflector, an argentined sister would still be pushing the tide, and together to and fro, and that, gravity would still have had its weight be counted.

        • JabbaPapa

          until we extricate ourselves and totally from the malignant aegis of the ECHR and her illegitimate half sister the ECJ

          Anyone who thinks that the UK will have no subjection to those particular Courts of Law post-Brexit is deluded, given that they are bodies of the Council of Europe, just as is (very technically) the International Court at the Hague simply due to its geographic location on EU/CoE territory, and they are not organisms of the European Union in International Law, despite the EU Treaties multilaterally accepting them and their juridical power as such.

          Yes, the degree of subjection of British subjects and businesses to the ECJ in particular will be drastically reduced by Brexit, but it will not simply just vanish away due to the UK Membership of the Council of Europe, although the precise delimitation of where the ECJ competence will no longer apply will, under both UK and fundamental EU Law, need to be defined by Case Law rather than by Treaty.

          • Ravenscar

            Then forthwith we need to revisit UK ‘membership’ of the council of Europe.

            Furthermore, the US and for that matter Korea and Japan, China and the rest are much fussed by the ECJ and its jurisdiction.

            It is, also as a matter of great urgency Britain needs to rescind that dreadful act of perfidy of the HRA and cut of the umbilical cord of the yuman rites cowboys and not least those raptors of the septic circle and matrix diseased chambers.

            What is needed in Westminster is any, some dedication to the wellbeing, security and defence of nation, as some sort of executive and a legislature primarily concerned with and determined, devoted to, the requisites of: British people. Extricating ourselves out of the EU ——— is merely a start.

    • lizmilton

      Re the “ guiding hand of Berlin”…
      See the documentary evidence on

      Reject-the-Eu.co.uk
      That the EEC was founded in 1941 to ensure complete German domination of Europe…
      And Kohl only got the German people to accept the euro after telling them it would enable them to control the rest of the EU…check out his speeches towards the end of the campaign where he had to overcome their opposition…

  • JabbaPapa

    Professor David Campbell of Lancaster University sets out how the legislative process of Brexit could become almost impenetrably bogged down in the morass of a quasi-constitutional conflict between Judiciary and Parliament over which has supremacy

    I’ve not rea

    • gunnerbear

      “…. but they have absolutely no power to halt Brexit at this present stage, given that the formal notification under Article 50 has been made, about which there is nothing they can do.” Yup…and that’s about it….

  • Pozieres

    Brexit is not going to happen. I say this with great sadness as I voted to leave the EU and would do so again, given the opportunity. May, Green, Rudd and Hammond are all Remainers. Anyone who thinks that this traitorous bunch is going to deliver Brexit is very much mistaken. The best that will happen is a Brexit in name only that the Establishment – the political, economic and judicial elites that really run this country together with their bought and paid for mainstream media will assure us is a real Brexit.

    • lizmilton

      I agree 100%.
      I stayed up to watch the result, having delivered thousands of leaflets. It was wonderful to watch Dimbleby’s face change as the results came in..
      But by 6 am on the 24th, I knew we would not be allowed to leave…the resignation of Cameron, the “May fix” have all been part of the plan to ensure this…read
      Ukcolumn.org

      To see how May/Fallon have tied us in militarily…see how Cameron’s Mayors,Regions etc were all lining us up to be subservient to Germany..
      I’m just waiting for “the big engineered event” where Maybe/ Rudd says we have to stay in the EU for our safety, security etc etc etc

      We are being treated as if we are complete fools

  • Nick Muir

    The dilution and final destruction of Brexit and the disrespect of the will of the English is the ultimate testament to how are lives are governed and ruled by cultural Marxism. A resounding victory for the Frankfurt School and a triumph for the snowflakes, gender benders, Corbynistas and SJWs. The death knell of the English race. Never mind Putin I wonder who was pulling ‘call me Dave’s’ strings? Soros will be in there somewhere.

    • Mojo

      Soros is probably the funding arm of our government as well as many others around the world

  • Early Music World

    ‘The Brexit movement needs to be re-created’. That’s a modest conclusion, though of course true. Beyond that is the more radical need for the creation of a new political movement (not party) that reflects the views of a large majority of decent people in this country. People who are sick of galloping political correctness, much of it led by the party that used to represent us. I for one will never again vote for the Conservative party

    • A new poster

      To me, there is a yawning gap that a decent political party or an alliance of conservative-minded independents could walk in to. I should be a natural Conservative voter but I won’t touch them as they just seem to be controlled by people whom I consider would be more at home in the Lib Dems. I think the problem is that many of the electorate are just not interested enough to have a proper look at who the Conservatives actually are rather than what they pretend to be.

    • gunnerbear

      What exactly do you mean by political correctness? The reason I ask is that the definition seems to be a very movable feast.

  • 39 Pontiac Dream

    I believe that many people, like myself, have not given up the fight and are ready to jump into action should a situation arise where any future decision goes back to the people.
    Watching the Conservatives fumble with an issue far too complex for their fuzzy little brains has been a painful exercise and one which I fear may take us up to and beyond the next General Election. Yes, we’ll be leaving in 2019 but, I think, in all but name. The Tories are not carrying out the will of the people, they will pay the hefty divorce bill and they will, most probably, keep us in the single market and customs union. That is not what I nor many others voted for.
    The British people were duped in the last general election into voting for one of 2 parties both of which (according to their manifestos) promised to get us out of the EU cleanly. It is obvious now (as it was then) that Labour want us to remain as do the Tories in many quarters.
    I unsuccessfully tried, on the run up to the last election, to bring more voters to UKIP as the only party who’d have delivered on what the 52% voted for but people were more concerned with keeping the Marxists out.

    If the Tories, as I believe, don’t deliver then those who misguidedly voted for them will get what they deserve.

    • Mojo

      I totally agree with this. We know that many labour voters will never vote Conservative and labour yet again lied to their heartlands. We know that both those Parties stood on a manifesto of leaving the EU and yet, because of the lost majority of the government, the europhile media are changing the narrative to suit a europhile agenda. They are trying to tell the country that most people voted to a pro EU Labour Party. They are trying to tell the country that the Government is weak. Both statements are absolutely wrong and the Leavers really do need to counter this.

      The government is actually much stronger than many think because of the unfolding chaos in EU countries. Merkle doesn’t have a Government and may have to hold another election. Mrs May is either being badly advised or she is on a mission to give us a Norwegian style Brexit. Stuck for the next twenty years or until the EU folds.

      Now we hear that Nick Clegg has been in discussion with Brussels to ask is to stay if they give way on free movement. If Mrs May starts talking about this I shall be so angry. Has she been delaying so these secretive talks could go ahead??? How dare an unelected man (as with Blair) be allowed this authority

      • gunnerbear

        “How dare an unelected man (as with Blair) be allowed this authority….” Envoys of all shades have been used by all versions of HMG over the years…get down off yer high horse…

  • Jenni Wren

    “that developments, not only since the Referendum generally, but more recently specifically, are placing Brexit in ever-greater jeopardy”…you mean people now realise the scale of deceit on both sides?

    • 39 Pontiac Dream

      If anyone took the decision to leave/remain in the EU based off empty promises by politicians on both sides, I despair.
      I, for one, spent most of my time pre-referendum researching the EU – its intentions, its future plans, its past policies, where our money was going, what legislation had been entered and made my decision to leave based on that.
      The media had very little influence on my decision and, as far as politicians go, I wouldn’t take anything they said at face value – if it’s important enough, I’ll check their promises against multiple sources.

    • martianonlooker

      We all know the deceit on the remain side i.e. to ignore a democratic vote. Where is the deceit on the Brexit side? Brexiteers have always been open in that their desire is to regain sovereignty and for Britain to manage it’s own destiny.
      Then again, aren’t you a sock-puppet of the Brussels regime? Rush off a 31 word post just before an EU expensed lunch. How much do you get paid per word? 100 Euros, perhaps?

      • gunnerbear

        Before the vote the Remain campaign screamed that if we left the EU that the world would spin in reverse, there’d be a plague o’locusts over the land and that darkness would fall for a 1000 years (I’m paraphrasing but I’m sure you get the idea)… …meanwhile the Leavers were shouting that if we stayed in the EU, the oceans would boil, ice storms would rage and there would be darkness over the land for a 1000 years (Again I’m paraphrasing but you get the idea).

      • JabbaPapa

        How much do you get paid per word? 100 Euros, perhaps?

        Is that a job offer ?

    • Reborn

      The massive deceit was on on the side of the remainders.
      I am not aware of any deceit practised by those who want us to regain
      national self government.
      If you’re thinking of that bus & the NHS, the figures were correct.
      It’s just that all that money was unlikely to go to the NHS.
      While the EU subsidised BBC still carries about labour shortages due to EU withdrawal ,
      the facts are that post referendum more EU citizens than ever have immigrated to the UK.
      Some are high skilled & civilised, some are not.
      Notably the Roma immigrants in Ms Crankie’s constituency who are
      doing their own version of Rotherham with the authorities turning a blind
      PC eye.
      As ever.

      • Jenni Wren

        I assume you are a Remainer trying to discredit Leavers? Grow up.

        • Reborn

          I am a leaver who has no need to discredit remainers since their
          wretched values speak for themselves.
          As to “growing up”, I haven’t a clue as to what you are referring.
          On a site such as this, common abuse is not advisable.

          • Jenni Wren

            Bingo

      • JabbaPapa

        If you’re thinking of that bus & the NHS, the figures were correct.
        It’s just that all that money was unlikely to go to the NHS.

        I think that Boris really just failed his rhetoric test on that one, even though no lies were put up onto those buses.

        We give £350M/week to the EU — FACT

        Let’s give it to the NHS instead — political proposal, NOT “promise” ; and this is the overly confusing point that very many people simply did not understand. We are still an EU Member State, so that the cash in question remains unavailable in any event.

        • Reborn

          Exactly.

  • Royinsouthwest

    EU supporters often claim the EU has maintained peace in Europe (if you ignore the Balkans) since WWII. The awarders of the Nobel Peace Prize were stupid enough to agree with them. Why then are EU supporters in Britain (quislings in other words) so willing to risk creating the conditions for a new civil war over who runs the country – Parliament acting in accordance with the decision made by the popular vote – or an “elite” who think that their voice is the only one that counts?

    Meanwhile the EU is continuing to express contempt for democracy with its attempts to bully Hungary and Poland and its indifference to events in Catalonia and Spain as a whole.

    • I’ve said it before, and no doubt I’ll say it again, but you know it as well as I do. The peace in Europe since World War II (except the Balkans, and even there, mostly) has been maintained by two organizations: The British Army of the Rhine, and the United States Seventh Army, backed by the strategic forces of those two countries. All else is window dressing, a present from the Anglo-Saxons to make the Europeans feel better about their defeat,

  • Mojo

    We have not given up. We campaign and we talk to lots of people. We do have trouble with the arrogance of many Remainers. We went on a rally a couple of days ago and still the students were telling us we had ruined their future, they hadn’t asked to be part of a poor country who will be ignored by the world, they didn’t want to leave Europe. I felt embarrassed for them, that they hadn’t moved on or bothered to check out what was actually being achieved so far.

    How do we take back the narrative when the majority of the watched and read Media is europhile, gets subsidies from Brussels (via our taxes) and indeed the majority do not even create the GDP of this country. So many of the lecturers and students ( we were rallying outside a meeting of students in Bath) just could not understand that they were effectively living off the taxes and the private sector. They were really angry when so many taxis, vans and lorry drivers were honking their horns and waving at us Kippers with our banners. The students were still calling us uneducated. Yes we took it all on the chin and laughed, but it is a huge worry that these people just may win the war

    • 39 Pontiac Dream

      It’s funny how many of those so called ‘educated’ didn’t even bother to read into the EU and find out what it had done in the past and what it intended to do in the future. To say that all Brexiteers had made the decision without checking their facts or researching the EU is frankly idiotic.
      My girlfriend and I spent much of our time, during the referendum campaign, posting all sorts of information (from financial to policy decisions) to as many people as we could (whether they were leave, remain or undecided) in the hope that having read it, they’d at least have an informative idea of what the EU was and what it was planning to become. I’d hazard a guess that many people didn’t read it but we posted regardless and we’ll continue to do so if the remainers convince the government to take the decision back to the people.

      As far as ardent remainers go, if they want to rally against the decision, they are perfectly entitled – we are, after all, a democracy. I just don’t agree with their approach. Their very vocal proclamations that all Brexiteers are stupid, uneducated, racist and ill informed will not help their cause – in fact, it’ll be to their detriment should a second referendum occur.

      • gunnerbear

        “To say that all Brexiteers had made the decision without checking their facts or researching the EU is frankly idiotic.” Of course it’s idiotic but I know Leavers who are just as bad when they describe Remainers as a group.

      • lizmilton

        Do you honestly think a Second Referendum will not be “fixed”?

        How did Peston know Ministers knew Postal votes were mainly in favour of Leave…look up the video…he even asks his interviewer if he has heard it…

        Why did Cameron and co start celebrating in no 10 at 3 30 on the afternoon of the 23rd of June?
        How come the “sovereignty of Parliament “ only became important after the Referendum result…search and read
        “Uk Parliament comes to an effective end”

        To see the sovereignty of Parliament had been given away, without most of the population even realising it…

        Do you honestly believe many in government will not concur with key objectives of UN Agenda 21 include
        “An end to national Parliaments
        An end to western democracy…”?
        See
        Ukcolumn.org

        and their free ebook on Agenda 21 to see the rest of the objectives, how Cameron and co did all they could to ensure an end to Parliament, a Marxist future, an undemocratic Parliament of Mayors etc etc

      • Mojo

        Yes, we were very surprised by the number of lecturers we spoke to, who didn’t even know we signed up to a common market. They all assumed it was already the EU. These people are teaching the next generation…..

        But the biggest problem I have is the lack of voices in the government. I am sure, we in the country, are still active but we never get a platform. London is still the all important voice that the government listen too. The media is europhile and the CBI seem to get the ear of the PM more than the BCC. I would dearly love Parliament to be moved outside London and the SE while Westminster renovations are carried out. I would also like the HoL split around the country so we really see what these people do and think. It won’t happen, something really seismic will be needed to shift the London bubble. However, I find it quite odd that the seat of government, the monarchy, the judiciary and Police HQ are all concentrated in one place. What if there was a massive air attack on London or some sort of chemical attack. Everything would be wiped out. Even USA doesn’t have its power concentrated in one city.

        • JabbaPapa

          Buckingham Palace, Windsor, Balmoral, and the Royal Family are NOT all located in a single place.

          • Mojo

            I understand what you say. However, these are holiday homes. They spend the majority of their time in London. Before Victoria and Albert no monarch spent most of their time in London because they were travelling the country to mix with their people. Even Government wasn’t totally in London because many of the hereditary Lords lived in the country and dealt with local issues. Now they are all London centric

          • JabbaPapa

            But Constitutionally, the Monarch is the Government and the Houses of Parliament and the Courts and the Police and Military.

            To bring down all of these things in a single attack is a material impossibility, even should the present Monarch and her most direct inheritors all to be killed in a single terrorist atrocity also destroying her Government and her Parliament.

            The only feasible means to achieve what you’re suggesting, constitutionally, would be a coup d’état ; but even such as that, because of the so-called “unwritten” nature of the Constitution and just as much because of the intrinsic Sovereignty of the Throne, would simply effect a change in our political leadership, not a destruction of it as such.

          • gunnerbear

            And in the UK, there’s no way anyone would be efficient at leading a coup…something would be forgotten, the plans mislaid, timings misunderstood….before you know it, the Guards will have stormed along the M180 and ended up in Grimsby on a cold wet Tuesday night…

        • gunnerbear

          “I would dearly love Parliament to be moved outside London and the SE while Westminster renovations are carried out.” Send ’em to Hull…

    • gunnerbear

      “that they hadn’t moved on or bothered to check out what was actually being achieved so far.” What has been achieved so far…I voted Leave and I’m curious to know.

    • lizmilton

      I have yet to meet a student who realises that according to the Lisbon Treaty, the youth of the EU will be conscripted into the EU army…that means THEM.

      It changes their view of the EU quite quickly…particularly when I go on to tell them

      1. only the Irish have an opt out from the EU army…which they negotiated when they were forced to vote again on the Treaty. (Many ask why our Politicians did not question this clause…the simple answer is they did not read the Treaty…check how the Cabinet Office conspired to ensure there was not the time to read the 3000 pages…so MP’s followed the advice of the Whips, and just voted it through…Ken Clarke, I have read, is one of those who boasts he did not read it.
      2. Migrants are not allowed to join the EU army, also according to the Lisbon Treaty.They find this quite shocking as even they can see that most are young men of fighting age. Also, as the Lisbon Treaty was discussed for years and eventually signed in 2009, some suddenly wake up to the fact that the “migrant crisis” was planned years ago…

      Referring the students to the article “The Moronification of western man: are we becoming more stupid?” with its links to the EU UN agreement in 2000 that

      195 million migrants would come to Europe by 2025

      makes them realise population replacement is planned…”the green and pleasant land” they grew up, with familiar standards and values will no longer exist.
      3. Referring them to the documentary evidence on
      Reject-the-Eu.co.uk

      To see the EEC was founded by Nazis in 1941 to ensure complete German domination of Europe usually completes the job…
      4. For those still reluctant to accept the reality, I suggest they query why Merkel is building a European town, complete with bridge and river on a German army base, to train the Stormtroopers to put down dissent in Europe…
      see “Germany and NATO: towards martial law and fascist repression in Europe?” ( the global research listing contains links to the original)…
      They realise , albeit reluctantly that dissent will not be allowed…hence HS2 as an EU directive so the Stormtroopers can be into and across the country very quickly…

  • Nockian

    Not wanting to tamp down the enthusiastic fire of this, but wasn’t it always going to be the case that the remain side would now become the medium of promotion of the EU after the referendum ?

    In the end, the people of the country voted to leave and I see no sign that this has diminished, indeed quite the opposite as many prominent remainers now want the Government to get on with it.

    I spent the best part of five years supporting politicians parliamentary bills and spreading the message of leaving the EU when it looked hopeless. It was a tiny cadre of leave promoters, which, now looks similar to the remain group. Certainly they have the establishment and all its media guns on their side, but they are still a small group for whom money and pedalled influence failed in winning against sheer numbers and enthusiasm.

    I often feel frustrated at the lack of movement and worry that the remain thieves will come back in the middle of the night and steal away our success, but is that really credible ? That’s not to say we shouldn’t be on guard, but, when that particular referendum battle has been won I think a ‘show of force’ simply benefits the enemy.

    • Fubar2

      But a show of force led by who?

      • Nockian

        …and a show of force led by whom ?

    • gunnerbear

      Brexit is grinding along…it was always going to be a process rather than an event.

      • Nockian

        That’s how I think of it. It was never going to happen overnight even though the more active Brexiteers wanted it. The reality is that a referendum is a bad idea, thought up by a ‘fly by the pants’ PM who thought he would never have to honour it, because the continuation of a coalition had been forecast.

        It was a mess anyway. Theresa May could have accepted the result of the referendum as ‘advisory’ and then more honestly campaigned on a manifesto to leave the EU. Instead she campaigned to ‘honour the result of the referendum’ which tells us all we need to know.

        • gunnerbear

          Yup and neither the Blues nor the Reds dare define what a good bad or deal is because the leaders of those parties know it would be move that ending up ripping their parties in to pieces.

        • UKCitizen

          A referendum is the only way to get a cross party decision on something.
          If it was not a referendum we would be in for the duration as the EU has bought every part of our establishment and most of the MPs with the promise of a never ending gravy train. And the worst thing is they did it with our own money!

          • Nockian

            Unfortunately that’s true, but, never the less, May could have made an election promise to leave and do A50 on entering office. It would have meant a firm commitment from which there would be no walking back, it would have been constitutionally better, MPs would have a ‘meaningful vote’ only in as much of what ever deal was offered by the EU and would understand that they couldn’t challenge it. Lastly, maybe more importantly, the EU would know that May meant business and there would be no softening, nor reversal.

            I’m beginning to think like Hitchens at the moment, that perhaps we should take the off the shelf Norway deal and stop all this money grabbing. There is already a precedent and we could engage it immediately and not pay a penny.

          • here’s looking at you kid

            ..nail, hit, head, the, on, the.

          • JabbaPapa

            A referendum is the only way to get a cross party decision on something

            That is a radically false statement.

            The Brexit referendum was a cross-party question to the British people, NOT a “decision” by the Parties political themselves.

        • JabbaPapa

          Theresa May could have accepted the result of the referendum as ‘advisory’ and then more honestly campaigned on a manifesto to leave the EU

          That would have been an utter travesty — the destructive actions of such people as Gina Miller and the flawed response of the US-imitating Supreme Court have already caused lasting damage upon the constitutional validity itself of referendums in the UK.

          • Nockian

            It would certainly have been a greater risk for leavers and of course it would have called into question any form of direct democracy-which is really questionable anyway.

            We have had over a year in constitutional crisis and an ongoing feeling, that at any moment, remainer MPs will and PM will scupper the entire thing and leave us in a worse condition than had we simply maintained the status quo.

            Do we really want to be more in than out, or more out than in ?

            The EU has offered us the Canada model, which looks fine to me. We could do the Norway model, which is also pretty good. In the end we need to get out having spent as little cash as possible, but getting back our sovereignty, law making and border control. The trade deal is secondary and is much more geared to British advantage, than to the continent. The EU could come out of this with no cash and a damaging trade deal for them.

  • PreProle

    Brexit will happen. The political class knows that anything less than a 70% vote for ‘Remain’ – should there be a second referendum – would make this country ungovernable and on the verge of civil unrest for years to come. And open the door for new political groupings to form, challenging the power of the established elites.

  • Fubar2

    He makes some good points. I share his view that the rats will find any way possible to subvert or overturn the referendum result, once they’ve found a way of telling 17 million voters where they can stick their desire to leave the EU. They do it because they know that despite the grumbling and groaning that if they do successfully subvert it, nothing will change. The dumb will still re-elect them back onto the gravy train no matter what, there will not be riots in the streets, there will not be a resurgence of UKiP who are a spent electoral force, nothing will happen. They will get away with it because they know there are no adverse consequences for them.

    • gunnerbear

      The seat next to me has been held by the Reds for decades and I person I know lives in an area that has been held by the Blues forever….there is literally no point voting for the non-incumbent party in those seats under FPTP.

    • Jim

      I still don’t see how you can hold another Election if you tell the Voters only the Right Answer is valid?

  • bs

    Er, what we need is somebody with a vision of what Brexit means which is pragmatic and not totally disastrous for the Country. Unfortunately, the Brexiteers who have all the power and influence seem to believe that everything can be done in about five minutes, and if we can’t, then “no deal” is feasible – in relation to which they don’t have much more to offer that ‘it will be all right on the night’. Those who have done some work on it, like Richard North’s Flexcit, are crying in the wilderness like ignored Cassandra’s and tearing their hair out at the vision of the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg seizing the floor with their panglossian nonsense. The campaign is over, it is won – it never offered any realistic view of post-Brexit UK, the last thing we need is a return to that. We need people who understand the difficulties of the Irish border and supply chains and who don’t think pragmatism.is a dirty word – a few genuine conservatives would be a start.

    • getahead

      You seem to think that Brexit is about trade. Remaining in the EU is what would be “totally disastrous for the Country”.

  • St Louis

    Whilst there are some good points in this, I think the para on UKIP is silly and rather spiteful. Farage was not complacent at all, but he had had nearly 25 years of continual abuse and harassment from most of the media and all political parties. At no time did he claim it was all over, nor does he now.
    Both James and Nuttall were supported, if not actually promoted by the “Faragistes”, but neither had the toughness or dedication for the job–a job that was the definition of a poisoned chalice.
    Fact is, no other party could press for a referendum without splitting, so NF created one by bolting together all sorts of disparate elements. The party is only now in the hands of someone who may be able to make it roadworthy. If he can’t, there will be a lot of people milling around with no one to vote for, and some very strong views..

    • gunnerbear

      Nigel F. is not a moron and he bailed at the right time – as you’ve correctly alluded to, once the glue of the fight for the Brexit vote was dissolved, there was nothing holding Blue UKIP and Red UKIP together.

  • gunnerbear

    Hmm..more s**te from an author who should know better…there is no point whining that Remain didn’t go away when Nigel F. himself said that if Remain won narrowly then he’d consider the matter ‘unfinished business’. And Blue One and Red One have said Brexit means leave….which is why UKIP collapsed as Leave Blues and Leave Reds went back to their parties. Of course neither Blue One nor Red One dare specify what a good or bad Brexit actually is because they’ll have headbangers on the wings of their parties up in arms. Brexit will grind on….it will be boring….but that’s kind of how it was always going to be…well except for the likes of Minford who want Brexit now and no tariffs even it means the end of UK manufacturing even as the Redwood screams we ought to be more like Singapore…. ..best of luck selling those ideas on the doorstep.

    • Reborn

      “The number of EU citizens working in Britain rose to a record high in the year after the Brexit referendum, official figures revealed yesterday. Despite fears of a so-called Brexodus, 2.37 million migrants from EU states were employed between July and September, an increase of 112,000 on the same period last year.
      The Times.
      While we are not self governing, I don’t see how we can whinge on about a housing shortage.
      And that’s just EU immigrants.

      • Partridge

        There is no housing problem. Whatever the cause(s), there is an over-population problem.

      • Tethys

        We are self-governing.
        Don’t be dim.

        • Reborn

          So, you think our “Supreme Court” is supreme ?
          In the Spectator of 23 Sept a senior barrister explains how the EU’s
          colonisers have even made us subject to powers that we were specifically
          given an opt out from.
          I’m not dim.
          You’re gullible.

          • Tethys

            I shall read about it.

    • Partridge

      The silent majority knows where the BS comes from; ‘project fear’ has not been forgotten. And I believe you have mis-quoted Nigel Farage regarding ‘unfinished business’.

      • gunnerbear

        Really, please explain to me how I’ve misquoted Nigel F…

      • gunnerbear

        “Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.” http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

        • JabbaPapa

          You are being dishonest — what he was pointing out is that if Leave had lost with 48%, it would have been unfinished business.

          Besides — the UK is still a Member State of the European Union, so how exactly is Brexit still not unfinished business ??

          • gunnerbear

            Yes…I know he was talking about Leave losing but it gave the Remainers a perfect opportunity to say, “Well, if you Leavers wouldn’t have shut up if you had lost, why should we Remainers?” Farage was a tool for even mentioning it.

        • Helen Smith

          And Tim Farron said Farage couldn’t keep having referendums until his side won.

          • gunnerbear

            Yup….which proves Farron is a tool as well because that is exactly the tactic that Remainers are driving for…. 🙂

      • gunnerbear

        What “silent majority” – in GE ’17 the Blues and Reds lifted the votes of over 80% of those that voted?

        • Partridge

          Empty vessels make the most noise. And who has been making the most noise in recent times? The noisy left by quite a few decibels.

          • gunnerbear

            Have no not heard the Blues as well then and those on the right more generally?

    • getahead

      “Redwood screams” and that’s without exaggeration.

      • gunnerbear

        Fair comment but I thought it more polite than, “Redwood the utter f**kin’ cockwomble….”

    • JabbaPapa

      when Nigel F. himself said that if Remain won narrowly then he’d consider the matter ‘unfinished business’

      Remain didn’t win “narrowly”, but with a 4-point lead in the largest poll ever in History.

      • Tethys

        Farage said a 48:52 would be unfinished business.

        The leave vote was a numeric minority of the electorate.

        A leave supporter set up the petition calling fo the vote to be voided in anticipation of losing.

        • JabbaPapa

          Yeah ? Well one of your favourite Eurocratic morons, the frenchman Macron, got in on the basis of 16% of the popular vote, so good jolly old numerical minorities, eh ?

          • Tethys

            66% of a regrettably low turnout, but still ahead of Trumpstein’s 27% after adjustment!

          • JabbaPapa

            16% voted for him on the first round, and then a very clear minority of the French on the 2nd against no-hoper Le Pen (who scored even more poorly than the “winner”).

          • Carl Lee

            And of course Jeremy Corbyn has a better electoral mandate than Merkel – Clinton got more votes than Trump – funny old thing democracy. I agree with gunner bear – if the vote had been 52-48 to remain (which is what I predicted) there is no way I would have expected UKIP or any other leavers to go – ‘oh well that is settled forever.’ We will come back to this down the line.

        • Robert Jones

          I am not a frequent visitor to this site but I still recognise you to be a troll. The Leave Vote was numerically greater than the Remain Vote. If the Leave Vote was a minority of the Electorate then the Remain Vote must have been smaller still.

          The Leavers won and none of the Remainer scare stories came to pass; quite the opposite.

          Get used to it and get ready to leave!

          • Tethys

            If I am a Troll, then at least I’m not a Russian one.

      • gunnerbear

        Farage himself said a 52 – 48 win for Remain would be a narrow one and so would be considered ‘unfinished business’….that gave the Remainers the golden opportunity to say, “Well, if you Leavers said you wouldn’t stop campaigning if you had lost 52 -48, why the f**k should we?” And the question, if you’re an honest Leaver, thanks to Nigel’s outburst, is unanswerable. And I’m a Leaver and I know of Leavers who were spittin’ feathers when Nigel came out with that spiel.

        • Thought Criminal 99

          Did you spit feathers when Remainer Paddy Ashdown said this on the same night;
          “I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British People once it has spoken. Whether it’s a majority of 1% or 20%.
          When the British people have spoken you do what they command. Either you believe in democracy or you don’t.”

          • gunnerbear

            Yep…I thought Ashdown was being a total cretin (as did Remainers I know) because like Nigel F. he wasn’t looking at political reality…. ….Remainers I know have said the UK is leaving but they will argue on two fronts…to get the best deal possible in the real world and then to continue to reverse the referendum decision… ….pretty much a mirror of the viewpoints of Benn and Powell from back in ’75….or where they trying to overturn democracy as well? Nigel F. alluded to the issue in his interview…the best possible result would’ve been a clear cut one…naturally he wanted Leave (as do you and I) but I can see the point he was making….to put the matter to bed….a clear cut result was required. Both you and I know that if Remain had won 52 – 48, Leave wouldn’t have stopped campaigning to reverse the outcome. Ashdown is a cretin because he was saying, that once a vote is in…that’s it…it’s done for ever…following that logic…let’s have the next GE and call that quits…following PAs logic…there’s no need ever again for another vote because the people will have voted….

      • hobspawn

        “Well, if you Leavers said you wouldn’t stop campaigning if you had lost 52 -48, why the f**k should we?”

        And the question, if you’re an honest Leaver, thanks to Nigel’s outburst, is unanswerable.

        No,
        it is not unanswerable. First, if Remain had won, even by a sliver we
        would be staying in full stop. We would join EU army and EURo, and we
        would have an elected president of the UK within ten years.

        Secondly,
        Cameron spent £9.3 million of our taxes on telling us which way to vote
        in a 16 page glossy brochure. The BBC never missed an opportunity to
        betray our sovereignty for filthy EU moolah. The parasites in every
        state institution abused their position to push their treacherous
        whoring.

        Thirdly, Remain is what Jo would have wanted.
        Not sure of reports of quote “Her death hardly seems worth it now”, but
        the timing was Anna Lindh extraordinary.

        Finally, the
        lies about “no EU Army”, “flights grounded”, “£4000 p.a. worse off”,
        “punishment budget”, “recession”, “World War 3” all proved to be a pile
        of steaming balls.

        Face it, we knew that the establishment would throw the kitchen sink at it; they did; and they still lost.

        This
        was a real decisive win for leave, to weather those odds and come
        through. 52R/48L would have been unfinished business because 10% of the
        result is the power of the traitor class over the little people.

  • Ozfan

    There won’t be 2nd referendum. Not unless the Elite feel 150% certain Remain will win it. The last referendum completely upset their plans and resulted in a PM and CoE out of jobs. How can they be 150% certain ? Well perhaps by engineering a depression or even a war. Extreme and I don’t put it entirely past them.

    More likely to me is that we are being conditioned to accepting delays and delays upon delays. Cameron pormised to enact article 50 on the day after the referendum! Haha.

    What’s being slide into place is a transition period that goes on forever, certainly until after the next GE. The Remainers plan that perhaps the GE can then be presented as having been a 2nd referendum and Brexit dropped entirely; if not it will be converted into a Brexit in name only. No wonder that the “rebels” do not want Brexit date in UK Law while UK keeps paying into the EU coffers.

    The clear and cynical rejection and plotting against implementing a democratic result by Remain has been an eye-opener for me. The extent and depth of deception by politicians, media and others has become clear. I understand now how many lies will be told.

  • Tethys

    More provocative than useful – riddled with immature militaristic language; and more buzzwords than Toy Story 1,2 & 3
    It’s Dog-whistle stuff with a high cliche coefficient.
    If the author is a freelance writer, then I am a freelance astronaut.
    The referendum was a democratic train wreck with both sides engagiing in an arms-race arace oof o

    • Reborn

      Do tell us about the murder.
      And if you’re going to say Jo Cox. Don’t trouble.
      She was killed by a psychotic loner who I believe was a constituent.
      If the woman had not been “first on a plane when there was trouble overseas”
      – to quote a fan, and taken an interest in the NHS & social services in her own
      constituency, this would not have happened.

      • Tethys

        In saying the whole referendum was pants, I made 8 points and asked a question.
        You respond on one?

        • Reborn

          Still waiting to hear about the murder old bean.

          • Tethys

            And I the other points.

    • amac

      Tethys, you may not like the result or think much of the campaign. You may not like Referenda, but people did vote to leave.
      To leave is very simple, it’s not nebulous, it’s out of all things where the EU is in charge of us.
      There may be unintended consequences but when adults vote, they take on a responsibility and they did in record numbers.
      If you think society is divided now, how do you think social cohesion will fare if democracy is seen to be a lie and Brexit is overturned ?

      • Tethys

        Try as I might, I can’t see the abuses of the referendum as democracy at its finest.

  • fred finger

    The £350M a week to the EU is not really understood by the public. Here is Barnier speaking:

    “The Lisbon Treaty established the EU as a
    legal personality independent from the member states, so member states
    do not have any right to those assets, there’s no shareholding in the
    EU. All of the EU’s assets belong to the EU and that includes buildings
    and other assets both tangible and intangible, financial and non
    financial, drinkable and non drinkable.”

    The point being the money owed to the EU as our yearly membership fee is EU MONEY. So any rebate we get is EU money which we have to spend as directed by the EU. It is not our money to do as we want, it has to go as directed. So of the rebate is that as negotiated by Thatcher, however we get that money at the discretion of the EU. The public need to understand the difference between ownership of the money and financial reconciliation. That is we are not going to raise millions of pounds on the money markets, transfer it to the EU, for seconds later part of it to be transfered back.

    • Reborn

      ‘ money owed to the EU as our yearly membership fee is EU MONEY. So any rebate we get is EU money which we have to spend as directed by the EU’
      Apparently, many people do not understand this simple truth.
      The support for the EU from universities & their overpaid staff is largely due to the fact
      that they could not be sure that a UK government would pay them as much directly.
      If a man forces me to pay him £100 weekly protection money he’s a crook.
      If he gives me £15 back to spend on his friends, he’s still a crook.

    • bobworth

      That is what’s known in the trade as “lying bollocks”.

      The rebate is a theoretical formula applied to the theoretical bill payable to the EU before payment.

      We pay the lower amount after the rebate has been deducted, and keep the rest. We can spend it on whatever we want, when we want, how we want. Or we can choose not to spend it at all. Because it’s a theoretical figure, an amount which was never part of any transaction.

      You’re (probably deliberately) confusing the rebate with the amount that the EU spends in the UK, which makes the difference between what’s known as the gross figure handed over, and the net contribution, which is what’s left after you subtract what the EU spends directly in the UK.

      THAT EU spending in the UK is of course controlled and decided by the EU. Though in 43 years there has never been a single occasion when the UK government of the day has raised any objection to how it was spent.

  • Nephthys

    I’ve felt the same. The momentum has been lost. The grave, and I fear irrecoverable, mistake was the coronation of Theresa May as continuity Cameron. Brexit has ceased to be the radical proposition for democratic renewal but a catastrophic storm that a managerial class of Tory wets must begrudgingly guide the country through.

    Who I resent most is Michael Gove who colluded with CCHQ to deny Boris his rightful place as Prime Minister. He may only have been following orders but with hindsight was it worth it? Everything that Boris, Cummings and Raab had planned was rubbished by the government we got.

    There is no contingency plan for a failed negotiation and I don’t think the government has faced up to this reality. Talks (and the government) will collapse approaching 2019 and we’ll go into a GE that the Tories will rightfully lose. Both the UK and EU have accepted the idea that all European parliaments will have to approve of whatever agreement is shuffled out and on any extension. Approval will not be given.