The EU Referendum was a seminal event in our political history for many reasons. One, however, was unique in modern times. In reaction to their defeat, the losing side’s leaders unleashed their inner contempt, not just for the result, but for the mass electorate, and arguably even for democracy itself.

The several distinct strands discernible in the Ultra-Remainers’ interpretation of the referendum result were, and are, all intended to justify either ignoring, diluting, or overturning it. That the flaws in them are so self-evident and so easily debunked highlights their desperation.


‘The Leave vote was driven by racism and xenophobia, to stop all immigration’

This first, knee-jerk, reaction has endured, its latest adherent being the habitually self-unaware Owen Jones, who in effect repeated it approvingly in his recent blog criticising the Remain-Elite’s demonisation of Leave voters (yes, really!). But, apart from the logical fallacy that wanting to stop all immigration (a minority view even among Hard-Leavers) is not prima facie evidence of either racism or xenophobia, how the accusation explains the large number of BME and Eastern-European-origin Leave voters is unclear.

The definitive rebuttal, though, emerged from Lord Ashcroft’s polling which found the majority of Leave voters voted on ‘Sovereignty and Democracy – the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK’. Even the second choice – ‘for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders’ – is about control, not prohibition. The usual Remainer accusation of ‘to stop all immigration’ is therefore exposed as just anti-Leaver prejudice.

‘Leave voters were predominantly uneducated, “low-information” people who didn’t know what they were voting for’

Even discounting its inherent repugnance – when did a vote’s democratic validity under universal adult franchise suddenly become conditional on educational or knowledge qualifications defined post facto by the losing side? – this meme’s central tenet, that mere possession of any old university degree makes your opinions and vote valid, but those of your not similarly-endowed fellow-voters invalid, is risibly false. To give just one example, 55 per cent of graduates apparently believe that both poverty and income inequality are increasing, when in fact the exact opposite is true.

‘The Leave vote caused a spike in hate crime’

This imprecation was made possible at all only by the balefully imprecise definition of ‘hate crime’, an ‘offence’ requiring neither complaint, victim, evidence nor corroboration to be accepted and recorded. Rightly described by Brendan O’Neill as ‘the most cynical, politically motivated crime panic in memory’,  and ‘the invention of a crime epidemic to the cynical, political end of defaming Brexit as hateful and dangerous’, it has now largely subsided, leaving its levellers looking especially malevolent or foolish.

‘The Leave vote was secured by Russian influence and bots on Twitter’

With this allegation, Remainer desperation descended into fantasy. It was rapidly demolished, not least by Matthew Goodwin’s comprehensive dismissal of the so-called ‘evidence’ for it. In summary, approximately 86 per cent of the allegedly ‘Brexit-influential’ tweets, which themselves represented only 15 per cent of the total analysed, were actually sent after the polls had closed, and fewer than 1 per cent of voters polled cited Twitter as their preferred information source.

‘They didn’t vote to be poorer, or to leave the single market and customs union’

Actually, they did. The repeated insistence by Cameron and Osborne alone that a Leave vote involved quitting both the EU’s principal economic institutions meant that no one could be unaware of those consequences of their Leave vote. The prominence given to them, plus the findings of the Ashcroft poll, suggests that Leave voters recognised there were economic risks in leaving, yet were still prepared to risk a temporary financial downside for themselves to ensure their children’s future in an independent, self-governing democracy.

Varied as all the above reactions are, they do have one common factor which appears both unprecedented in recent history, and very disturbing. Albeit in different ways, they all seek, not merely to condemn or oppose the Leave vote, but specifically to de-legitimise it, as justification for ignoring, negating or overturning it. As historian Robert Tombs puts it:

 ‘Never in modern times has there been such an overt and even contemptuous attempt to deny the legitimacy of a popular vote.’

Previous unexpected election outcomes produced shock, as in 1992 when John Major’s Tories won, or noisy street demonstrations by the losers after the 2015 Conservative victory. But I cannot recall a previous vote in modern UK political history after which the losers have embarked on a blatant campaign to invalidate the votes of the winners, and to such an extent as to challenge the legitimacy of democracy itself.

Why? Well, those of what we can accurately label the Ultra-Remainer mindset, even carried over into regular general elections, have not been on the losing side in any election for approximately 25 years. After 1992, they got in succession Blair, Brown and Cameron: in effect a continuum of Blairite government reflecting their politics, right up to its abrupt repudiation by 17.4million voters on 23 June 2016.

For them, losing is a new experience, one which they don’t like, and can’t handle. And the underlying reason is that, as they’ve now shown and continue to show, they actually hold a low opinion of the masses, and, by extension, of mass democracy, especially when it delivers an outcome unwelcome to them.

It’s clear that, for so many, the overriding attraction of EU membership is because it enables as much politics as possible to be made immune from the need for popular consent – to be put beyond the reach of the capricious domestic democratic process and the electorate whose views they not only by and large do not share, but for whom they actively feel contempt.

In a way, we should thank them. Their Referendum-denying, insult-hurling, anti-Brexit demonisation and attempted de-legitimisation of 17.4million votes has revealed starkly the sheer extent to which this country’s elites tolerate mass democracy only for as long as it produces the results they want. When it doesn’t, they’re viscerally eager either to disparage it or suspend it.

And they are still disproportionately influential and vocal in politics, government, the media, academia, and big business. As we go into 2018, Brexit is still not certain, despite being the largest vote for any single policy in British political history. It’s starting to feel as if democracy itself is dangling by a very tenuous thread.

383 COMMENTS

  1. I wonder: does the simple possession of a University degree make one a member of the so-called, elite? Or more to the point, do people who possess degrees, consider themselves to be members of the so-called, elite?

    • The great majority of people in this country have been, and continue to be, “educated” under the state system; extending all the way from primary school to university; and all firmly under the control of the “Blob”. This education appears to be a one-way street encompassing all species of political correctness, including but not limited to the absolute certainty that Britain has a history to be thoroughly ashamed of and its only sustainable and morally justifiable future lies in absorption into one of the big continental power blocs as a stepping stone on the way to global government.

      So if a majority of people are still so appallingly ignorant as to fail to understand how beneficial the EU is, and what an unmitigated disaster Brexit will be, should the Remain lobby not be placing the blame fairly and squarely at the feet of those whose great brainwashing experiment over several decades now seems to have been a spectacular failure?

      • There are still people born before the Great Brainwashing Project began which explains the desire of some people for them to die off. But by the time that happens, the EU will not be able to help them. And, I have never or ever will be, ashamed of the History of this Country.

        • There is also the inconvenient fact that many of those old codgers who voted Leave in 2016, also voted In back in 1975. The reason for their change of heart is that they have a) grown up and b) witnessed the accumulation by the EU of control over what were sovereign national areas – a power-grab that Ted Heath deliberately lied about before the first referendum.

          • As an ardent leftist with a good knowledge of UK history & English law
            I voted out in ’75 as a young codger.
            The only mass rally I have ever attended was addressed by Michael Foot,, Sir Derek Walker Smith etc.
            Everything predicted at the time, which I feared as a leftist, has now come about.
            As a conservative, my feelings about being a colony of a foreign power are identical.
            Remember those Heathite arguments about how being a member ofvthe club we could improve it ?
            I recently read a piece by Nigel Lawson, written about a year ago, in which he stated that out of 72 UK motions in the EU Parliament, 72 were defeated,
            Some influence.

    • I wonder: does the simple possession of a University degree make one a member of the so-called, elite?

      No.

      Or more to the point, do people who possess degrees, consider themselves to be members of the so-called, elite?

      Not if the degree is one that’s actually worth having, no.

      The élite are defined by their political and/or financial power, not by anything else.

        • Too right. An acquaintance with a degree in meeja studies is now high up in a company which sells advertising space. He is anything but the sharpest knife in the drawer, but apparently earns rather well – giving rise to the kind of arrogance that comes with much money but little nous.

    • The latter.
      The real EU elite, in as far as they are visible, are stinking rich.
      Indeed, so rich as to be invisible if they so wish.

  2. These people have control of all the levers of power. There is no way that they are going to let us leave the EU in anything other than name. Our only realistic opportunity properly to leave will be if the EU implodes. If they succeed in having an EU army in the near future, then even this possibility disappears as any dissent will simply be suppressed. Sorry folks, but this is the depressing truth of the matter.

      • To quote Mandy Rice-Davies (who probably had a stronger moral compass than St Nicholas Clegg); ‘Well, he would say that, wouldn’t he?’

  3. In addition to the above we should spare a thought for all those people Remainers refuse to knowledge the existence of:
    The million Scots who voted Leave
    The 40% of Londoners who voted Leave (more than voted for Sadiq Khan to be Mayor)
    The 44% of Northern Irish who voted Leave.
    The 3 million who came back to the polling stations after years of absence (90% voted Leave)

    No one like to discuss or mention these people. They are horribly inconvenient to the narrative.

    • “These people”, including plenty with university degrees in serious subjects as well
      “hard working families” are what the Clinton woman described as Despicables.
      The sheer nastiness of the older remoaners is only matched by the ignorant naivety
      of the under 40s who had the misfortune to go to one of Mr Blair’s dud “unis” or think,
      ridiculously, that the EU is a benign venture encouraging the comity of nations.
      They also think John Lennon was a great philosopher.

      • One of the things my girlfriend and I did during the build up to the vote was plug left wing/MSM sites with papers from the EU website showing what they received, where the money went, what their plans were, what legislation they’d passed – as much as I possibly could. If I could guess, I reckon they were probably read by about 1 in every thousand.
        Remainers whinge about ‘fake news’ and ‘leave lies’ but as soon as you hit them with facts, they turn the other way. If they couldn’t be bothered to read and research into the EU, they are bigger reprobates than I expected.

  4. “Well, those of what we can accurately label the Ultra-Remainer mindset, even carried over into regular general elections, have not been on the losing side in any election for approximately 25 years…”

    This is undoubtedly a factor in their inability to accept the result of the referendum, but I think the deeper cause lies in the Blairite destruction of national, social cohesion through mass immigration and the politicisation of key, formerly independent, institutions.

    Sir Roger Scruton explains this very well. Social cohesion is a result of of a shared language, history, culture and apolitical, national institutions such as the Monarchy, the Judiciary, The Police, the Armed Forces and the Civil Service. It makes democratic politics possible as it allows a substantial minority to accept democratic decisions that don’t go their way, on the basis that there is more that unites us, than petty political differences divide.

    This new inability to accept the result of a democratic vote is also reflected in the US, with the election of Donald Trump and is a direct result of the Clinton/ Blair, progressive, ‘third way’, what Peter Hitchens correctly terms, ‘cultural revolution’ – a deliberate undermining of national, social cohesion to further the aims of supra-nationalism and globalisation.

    Our national institutions have been politicised and our nation is being ghettoised. Both Clinton and Blair are wicked men who will deserve their places alongside all the other despotic monsters that human history unfortunately throws up from time to time.

    • I accept the result. Had I voted, and had I been asked to say what I wanted to happen, it would have been to Remain, but it was obvious that Leave were going to win. My only surprise is that they didn’t win by a bigger margin. As to what it says about the country, I dislike it, but I’ve been coming to dislike the country for years anyway. What should happen? Well, Britain should Brexit, of course, as that is what people voted for. But it would make life easier if people who wanted to could avail themselves of EU citizenship in exchange, perhaps, for taking an oath of allegiance to the EU and not voting in UK elections, which I would view as being immensely satisfactory.

          • “I’ve been coming to dislike the country for years anyway” – IMO that implies that it was NOT what you think the referendum revealed that was what you disliked, but something preceding the referendum.

            So, as I’m not clear what you are trying to say, could you kindly explain a) what was it you disliked before the referendum, and b) what was it that the referendum showed you?

          • The country is parochial and small-minded. Which is fine, of course. That’s its right. But I don’t find it awfully pleasant.

          • That would be staying in the EU. To be stuck in an anti-democratic corpocracy which looks inwards both economically and politically seems very small minded. We are tied to a collective which does not respect individual freedom and as such is looking backwards towards the central planning of the USSR and a form of Neo feudalism last seen in the Middle Ages.

          • I know this will be shocking to you, Ayn, but I don’t care about individual freedom. Any system that provides cheap rent, some kind of work and the basics of human existence is a good system.

          • I honestly don’t care what the system is. What most people want is work, money and that’s it. The system doesn’t matter, the colour of the flag doesn’t matter, the ideology doesn’t matter.

          • Ah money. Work is very easy to find, certainly there is no shortage of work. Money, well I expect you want to be paid for your labour in money and to have something to buy ?

            Where does paid work come from ? Well you need an entrepreneur willing to create a business and capital to fund that business. To do so will require the freedom to save, borrow and begin trading.

          • I expect a small amount for my work and I don’t care where it comes from as long as it’s either legal or plausibly denial. The entrepreneur’s problems are their own.

          • But they do. I get paid, not a huge amount, but I get paid. And that’s all you can ask. Eight hours of drudge and then some money.

          • That you ‘don’t care where it comes from’ but you no doubt expect to be paid, suggests that in fact you need to care. The entrepreneurs problems are your problems if you expect to be paid for your labour.

            No entrepreneurs would mean an autarky-even communism requires there are first entrepreneurs to set up the factories for production, prior to the state stealing them. An autarky might sound attractive to you, but, bear in mind that these were the conditions prior to the industrial revolution. The UN considers a poverty wage to be <3$ (inflation adjusted in today's money) and prior to the industrial revolution this was pretty much the most people could expect to earn. Life expectancy was in the mid 30s and people would have had to work dusk to dawn on the land. There was no medicine to speak of and they died of horrible diseases and often starved to death. The maximum population that was sustainable in Britain was 6 million.

            I think you need to put a touch more thought into your idea of 'acceptable' and consider that without any ideology there would be utter, lawless chaos. You would very likely be a slave under those conditions-if you were lucky.

          • You are free to evade reality, but you can’t evade the results of doing so. Lots of people don’t care as long as the world appears to tick along giving them what they need-the problems begin when that ceases to be the case. It’s a bit like being a driver of a car and not caring how the engine works or how to change the tyre. Most of the time you can get by-perhaps you have a breakdown contract and feel you can rely on that. However, one day you break down on a quiet backroad in the middle of nowhere and your mobile phone has no signal.

          • Vote ? What’s voting got to do with it ? This is about your own knowledge and principles. The point has been made many times throughout history. All good men need do in order for evil to grow is to evade the need to determine what is good and evil. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution, but, whichever you are, there is no escaping it. Best, I think, to know, but that’s just me. What you do is up to you.

          • In that case, I’m shunted into the ‘part of the problem’ category by sheer and unalloyed apathy.

          • Except you don’t actually know it, you can only know you are ignorant, not of what you are ignorant of.

            I used to be apathetic, it’s a kind of warm pool, in which swim the horrible sharks of self doubt.

            Up to you though dude. I’m just pointing out where I think you might shine your light.

          • It amuses me. If you want a book recommendation, read Jose Saramago’s ‘Seeing’ which changed my view.

          • The very definition of life in the old USSR in fact…anybody visiting from the West during the Soviet era who would voluntarily live under those conditions would be certifiable.

          • That’s certainly the line. Talk to people who grew up in East Germany, as I have done, and another picture emerges.

          • Of course not. But a lot of people were apolitical and, as such, could have a perfectly good life. If you don’t rock the boat, most societies are bearable.

          • You are encouraging him to talk (even more) about himself, and encouragement he emphatically does not need.

          • Didn’t you say you were a remain voter? I don’t know how to put this to you but when you have competing arguments for a vote then you choose a side, regardless of whether you think you didn’t have one or not.

          • I wanted remain to win as it would have made my life easier. That isn’t the same as having a ‘side’.

          • Then you don’t get the chance to complain. If you can’t be bothered to engage in our country then you can’t complain when things don’t go your way.

          • Show me the legislative instrument which says that. Also, I don’t vioew it as ‘my’ country. It’s the country into which I happen to have been born. I tried to get out of jury service on similar grounds.

        • BG tells us he hates the UK but refuses to tell us where he would rather live.
          He’s an irritant, & if posters get fun from his ridiculous interventions,
          that’s fine.
          Personally, I now ignore him, but I do sometimes wonder if his bleats are a cry for help, and them I feel a bit guilty.

          • I’ve blocked him because I found the irritation factor greater than any casual interest in the part-work autobiography he is using this website to publish.

            He’s a troll here to disrupt the threads.

          • You’re wise.
            I just posted one response as, at last, he vouchsafed where he wants to live.
            I’m sure the Swedes would welcome any non muslim immigrants, but he’d
            have to black up for Merkel to accept him.

          • Sweden will soon be dead.
            The collection of states & regions that currently call themselves Germany
            are attractive to me also.
            Hopefully there’ll soon be an AFD influenced government & the assorted German peoples will stop having to tolerate the dregs of the Third World
            and be able to stop being the only country that pays more in to the utterly corrupt & undemocratic EU than the unfortunate British.

          • I’ve been applying for a year and a half. A friend has just got a job in the UAE which threatens to destroy his marriage.

          • A friend has just got a job in the UAE which threatens to destroy his marriage.

            That’s sad, but what has it to do with you wanting to go and work in the EU?

          • Think you need to speak Swedish in Sweden, or work in IT or some other in demand job.

            Got two mates of mine who moved to Sweden; one is an IT geek and a PhD in mathematics who got a job straight away in Stockholm despite being English speaking only – quelle surprise.

            Got another mate in love with a Swedish girl, he’s living with her. He doesn’t speak Swedish and is not highly qualified. He’s been there for over a year now – no job for him.

      • There were a few reasons for the closest of the vote, the extension by many days of the voter registration process when the system only failed at 15 minutes to the midnight deadline, the £9 million spent by the government on the propaganda leaflet and the cynical use of the death of Jo Cox to infer that this was carried out by those wanting to the leave the EU.

      • ‘it was obvious that Leave were going to win. My only surprise is that they didn’t win by a bigger margin.’

        You were probably the only person in the country, then, who thought that. Even those on the leave side, like me, thought that the weight of the establishment would win out. They had everything – money, manpower, the weight of the MSM; when I sat down on the night of the vote, I was resigned, hopeful that our country would have the courage to vote out but weighed down by the knowledge (which turned out to be false) that remain would probably get it.
        Thank God our country had the balls to do what was right. That said, they had the balls for that fight but not to say no to a 2 party state. Let’s hope they grow back for the next election battle.

          • It’ll be a re-run of the last one. May gets in, Corbyn does enough to stay in charge and things carry on as usual. You don’t get quite the Brexit you want, rermainers don’t remain and nobody is happy but, at the same time, unhappy enough to do anything about it.

        • Me too. I was convinced ‘Remain’ had won. I got up very early and was amazed that ‘Leave’ had won. I too thank God we did this. Damn the EU and all its works.

          • The booze helped when watching the results come in. It even helped when watching/listening to Thornberry and Abbott. Who says booze isn’t therapeutic….

        • If Remain had won it would probably have been to a similar majority but I doubt that the leave voters would now be behaving like the remainers. Apart from anything else the remainers represent the empowered and the status quo so leavers couldn’t have conducted the same “spanner in the works” agitation.

          • Had the tables been turned there would be no consideration give to the 48% who voted ‘Leave’. We would have ‘Remain’ shoved down our throats and a ‘United States of Europe’ here we come.

          • Yes, it would have been considered an absolute decision and the Leavers would have been erased from consideration.

          • i , and quite a few other people, were bitterly disappointed over the “Remain” vote in 1975, but we lost and just shrugged and got on with it….it wouldn’t have mattered what percentage – they won and we lost. I believe it is called “manning up”.

            But….as LP Hartley said :”the past is a foreign country, they do things different there.”

      • Are you actually going to leave? Because a non-citizen living somewhere is invariably going to have less rights, not more. That’s why citizenship is worth having after all.

  5. Why is it that Britain seems to be the only one that has a problem with the EU. The others just pocket the benefits and ignore the diktats and keep quiet.
    It is the Leavers who do all the talking anyway. I have rarely heard a Remainer say anything.
    I now just sit back and wait for all the benefits of leaving to come pouring in. All that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove promised. They new what they were talking about. Clever people those two.

    • Keep an eye on the forthcoming Italian election (4th march). I think that it will be another bad day for the EU elite.

    • I have never heard a Remainer say why we should be in the EU. Perhaps they say nothing because they have nothing to say?

      • Absolutely. At the beginning of the referendum campaign the people at ‘Stronger in’ sat around a table with a mission to come up with five positive things about the EU. They got stuck at three.
        Hence project fear was born.

          • I don’t think they did get to 3. They couldn’t come up with a positive message for the EU because actually when you sit down and look at it in the cold light of day the EU is pointless. It is also profoundly anti-Democratic and is busy quietly building tyranny.

    • Take your head out of the sand; speak to French people who do not live in the Paris bubble and you will find a deep distrust and resentment of the EU. Try Poland or Hungary … and of Germany, after Merkel, you may be surprised. Oh, I forgot Denmark.

    • “I have rarely heard a Remainer say anything”.

      You and I obviously have different media sources then.

      Now try addressing the points raised in the article – especially the assault on democracy.

  6. ‘Leave voters were predominantly uneducated, “low-information” people who didn’t know what they were voting for’

    One doesn’t need to be “educated” to see things with one’s own eyes that are detrimental to the interests of this country. Many people voting knew this country pre-common market so have first hand experience. Before we joined I thought it was a good idea , but by 1975 I was disillusioned enough to vote “leave”. Nothing in the next forty-odd years has occurred to make me change my mind.
    Remember the “wine-lakes” and “butter-mountains”? I do. Remember pre-common market the French used to flock to Ramsgate by hover-craft for all our cheap supermarket food? No? I do. I voted “leave” again because in my uneducated opinion the EU has been a disaster for our country.

    • IMHO, the level of “education” was little more than a proxy for age. I’m an old git, one of the 5-6% who went to university. Most of my cohort had “O” and “A” Levels (in the days when they actually meant something). With the present target of 50+% undergoing tertiary education – the vast majority of which appears to be utterly useless – younger and less wordly “remain” voters appear to be better “educated” than the older “leavers”.

      The simple fact that the “O” Levels, HNCs, HNDs etc. more commonly held by the “uneducated” oldies were probably more academically rigorous than the average degree in “Grievance Studies”, or whatever, doesn’t appear to cross the worldview of the commentariat.

      • Indeed…..I daresay that your alma mater taught students such as yourself how to think…..not what to think, as seems to be the case nowadays.
        As to dropping standards, I remember seeing a programme on television some time back where GCSE students were “taken back” to 1950’s era eduction and they sat a mock exam. They were under the impression it was to an “O” Level standard, out of fourteen students, only one passed. It was infact the 11-plus!

        • That is a very good point – the teaching of how to think rather than what to think. Unfortunately the latter seems to apply to everything now. I never thought that the UK would ever become an oppressive, authoritarian socialist country of unlimited government interference in private lives but it has happened.

          • The real rot started after major signed us up to EU diktat before that you could nearly kid yourself that the UK, England was still a free country, the tramsmogrification since the prefidy of Maastricht has been quite astonishing.
            More especially since Bliar opened the gates but if one considers vast numbers of young British talent who’ve emigrated (4-5 million) in the last 20 odd years and to be replaced by inferior product, then, we are down to the very bare bones.
            Alack, 17.4 million shouted Enough! though, with mother maybe – things only got worse!
            Cripes, we await the date – March 2019 with a ‘will it happen’ feeling contrast that, with the sensation of unbounded elation when the EU referendum was won – almost totally vanished thanks to mother maybot and her crew of Red-lite ***ewads.

        • Over here there is extant a copy of an exam need to graduate 8th grade back around 1910 or so (I thought I had it, but couldn’t find it today). In any case, I passed it around my friends my age and younger, and mostly graduates from reasonably good to very good American universities – no superstars, really, but no dullards either. Of about twenty who took it, one passed, and no, it wasn’t me, although I was close, as were several others.

      • I remember, over 10 years ago, reading through one of the O level papers my ex’s parents did in the 1970’s and was blown away. The standards they expected back then were those they now look to in degree courses.
        I attempted to teach to the same standard in 2007 and was told that I was taking my students backwards. Can you believe it? Encouraging a broad and creative atmosphere in the 21st century is perceived, by the idiots in charge, as regressive? Unless kids are home schooled (and that, at some point, will have state interference), they have no chance.

        • I had a friend doing a Religious Degree a few years ago and I read and commented on her essays. In one she used a Biblical quotation and being of an age one sort of remembers these things. I knew it was wrong so looked it up and gave the exact quote with the reference and added a note that she might care to look this up in whatever Bible she was using as this was from the ‘Authorised Version’. I was rather surprised a day or so later to get an email asking me what the ‘Authorised Version’ was, who published it and the date. I gave up.

      • I took my O levels, then in the 70s took my HNC. Academically I had reached my zenith. How come I later took a diploma, then graduate and then post grad? Have I become more intelligent or have the exams become easier?

      • My wife works in further education and I can assure you there are individuals going to university who struggle to read or write. The colleges only get paid if the students pass and the universities all want the £9K per year in tuition fees.

        All that nonsense about ever rising academic standards is utter tosh and should be correctly described and ever rising corruption. These highly educated Europhile geniuses all voted for Corbyn at the last election and want to exist in safe spaces where nobody can challenge their views.

  7. There is a sociological concept called “moral panic” that used to be very popular among left wingers wanting to dismiss public fears over crime and other matters. A good explanation of this is given in the article below, from which I have quoted some sentences.

    Moral Panic: Who Benefits From Public Fear?
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201507/moral-panic-who-benefits-public-fear

    Moral panic has been defined as a situation in which public fears and state interventions greatly exceed the objective threat posed to society by a particular individual or group who is/are claimed to be responsible for creating the threat in the first place.

    The moral panic concept was developed and popularized by South African criminologist Stanley Cohen when he explained the public reaction to disturbances by youths called “mods and rockers” at seaside resorts in Brighton, England during the 1960s. Cohen’s work illustrated how those reactions influenced the formation and enforcement of social policy, law, and societal perceptions of threats posed by the youth groups.

    Since its inception, the moral panic concept has been applied to a wide range of social problems including but not limited to youth gangs, school violence, child abuse, Satanism, wilding, flag burning, illegal immigration and terrorism.

    Central to the moral panic concept is an argument that public concern or fear over an alleged social problem is mutually beneficial to state officials—that is, politicians and law enforcement authorities—and the news media.

    All this sounds like an accurate description of the “hate crime” epidemic but we do not hear much about “moral panic” from the left nowadays because they are the ones trying to create the panic.

  8. ‘They didn’t vote to be poorer, or to leave the single market and customs union’.

    That was one of Emily Thornberry’s gems along with ‘you didn’t vote to lose your neighbour’s job.’ I notice your headline picture also features one of Remain’s mythical lines of ‘hard Brexit, soft Brexit.’ As many leavers have told these idiots, there is just leaving and staying – cherry picking is their thing, not ours.
    The remainers will never keep quiet about this and, as long as they have ex ministers and/or celebrity endorsement stoking claims that we’re racist, we’re uneducated, blah, blah, they’ll continue their vitriol. I read, on the BBC the other day, a Viewsnight opinion which stated that once the elderly Brexiteers die off, the Brexit vote will soon be zero. I think even the BBC forget sometimes the amount of youngsters who’ve popped up on their flagship political programmes to state that they voted for Brexit.
    As I’ve stated on these pages, on similar articles, I’ve read countless posts (on other forums) by remainers, and some, high profile, stating that we’re plebs, we don’t know what we’re doing, or we do which makes us dangerous, we’re racist, the elderly should die off and let the young take us back into the EU (where we belong, apparently).
    Many of these remainers should perhaps view some of the stuff they put out (or others like them) before they slander us. As for the high profile commentators who’ve written much of this vitriol, they should know better.

    • The ageism involved is really quite disgusting and flies in the face of the claims of those hypocrites to respect diversity and abhor discrimination and bigotry. It also ignores the fact that Heseltine – 84 – is a fanatical remainer.

      • Old people voted for Brexit. You want people to pretend otherwise to avoid upsetting your tender sensibilities?

        • The same people who overwhelmingly voted to join in 1973, and saw how that turned out in practice, went on to overwhelmingly vote to leave in 2016.

          • Well, if you consider yourself old at 44, in that case you will be a shivering quivering wreck by the time you retire. If you haven’t succumbed to a fatal attack of angst before then.

            Personally I have found myself gaining confidence the older I get. Not the “I know it all” confidence of the young, but the discovery of the “known unknowns”

          • We all get more afraid as we age. Things that seemed certain become uncertain, our world contracts and the land outside it seems like a fearful place. Getting old is utterly rubbish.

          • You really are a twerp. You are right, getting old is rubbish but it doesn’t make us fearful or uncertain, I think you are describing those snowflakes who seek safe spaces, describing yourself probably.

          • Exactly. You had to be 57/8 now to have voted in 1975, so it is telling that the young on 1975 are now opposed to the EU.

          • And very telling that Merkel said after the referendum result, she regretted more young people hadn’t voted – those receiving pro EU propaganda in school she meant. She seemed not to know they are also the ones who can’t get out of bed.

        • People who have a sense of patriotism and loyalty to their country and to their forebears who created the society we enjoy today and which is being trashed by their ungrateful descendants.

        • Because we remember how it was before the EU and we know the EU doesn’t make the world go round, everything was fine before the EU. We don’t need their interfering and having to pay for the privilege. You who cannot get a job and doesn’t have an EU passport must be from outside the EU, so go back where you came from.

      • Ah but discrimination is fine as long as it’s not aimed at fashionable minorities. If you’re white, British, male, heterosexual, Christian AND a Brexiteer, you’re up there with Hitler.

    • We could hardly ever be “accepted” back into the EU without adopting the Euro, but Remainers appear to have little to say on this.

    • I suppose when the EU fails as it will, the Leavers will be blamed. I had hoped it’s collapse would leave the Remainers with nothing left to say but I can see now we will be blamed.

      • When the EU collapses, and it will, it will be the EU’s fault and no one else’s. If remainers want to apportion blame, they should take a closer look at the EU and its so called ‘achievements’ over the years. At least then they’ll have a better understanding as to why many of us Brits voted out and why many more across Europe want the EU to fail.

  9. So transparently lifted from the United States, the “Did the Russians Cause Brexit?” angle is insidious, despite its obvious fatuity, because it encourages the notion of a challenge to the legitimacy of the Brexit result. None of the other Remainer complaints listed by the author goes beyond impugning the motivation of the voters. Those whinges betray a depressingly typical attitude among the self-appointed elite towards the rest of us, but they can’t actually alter the result.

    The “It Woz Vladi Wot Wunnit” claim, on the other hand, aims to undermine the integrity of the vote itself. If it were successful, the same logic could be used to deny any further referendum votes, as supposedly impossible to protect from foreign influence. (With the Brexit vote overturned, even the Remainiacs now vociferously demanding a second vote would quickly change their tune.)

    Incidentally, I don’t recall that the Remainiacs objected to Obama’s intervention in the Brexit campaign, but that is less ironic than to hear Remainiacs shouting themselves hoarse with assertions of “Xenophobia!” and then switching to accusing Johnny Foreigner of interference.

  10. Yes indeed “..In a way, we should thank them”

    Until now many of us – including me – have been deferential.

    I’m afraid deference is the English disease, maybe we should become more Fench and fill Westminster with cow-pats

    The monarchy is our achilles heel, but ‘King Charles’ ? ….. things are changeing

  11. We are hearing broadly the same about those who voted for Brexit as we are hearing about Donald Trump and those who want change in Europe whether in Germany, Austria or Spain. In all cases they are being condemned as ignorant and uneducated people who “don’t understand the issues” or are “racist”. It is the current method of attack by their left wing opponents, don’t bother with rational arguments, just Keep repeating that they are all ignorant and if this doesn’t work, hold protests.
    Rational argument and discussion is a thing of the past, even the EU bureaucrats use the same approach by of issuing threats regarding what they will do to this country if we don’t agree with them.

  12. “For them, losing is a new experience, one which they don’t like, and can’t handle. And the underlying reason is that, as they’ve now shown and continue to show, they actually hold a low opinion of the masses, and, by extension, of mass democracy, especially when it delivers an outcome unwelcome to them.”

    This is absolutely the pivotal issue.

    I have one or two good friends who are very left, very remain and very ‘liberal’ but who nonetheless look upon the majority of their fellow countrymen and women with something verging on disdain. One of them even emigrated to an EU country because he couldn’t stand his own.

    Putting aside for one moment the issue that, surely, left-leaning, Labour voters should have a little more love and respect for their working class or less well educated brethren, this is sadly the default position for a lot of them, if not most. I don’t think I’m exaggerating here.

    The main point is that this rather unseemly attitude has, until now, remained pretty much hidden in public but, as you so eloquently point out Michael, recent events have exposed this ugly side to their characters for all to see.

    Yes, these people are fine while they are winning but as is sometimes the case with outwardly virtuous people, the ‘virtue signallers’, they’re anything but when they lose.

      • I don’t think he does but you’re welcome to join him of course, such are the freedoms available in our wonderful society.

        Unlike most Cubans after your favourite Argentine Marxist’s efforts.

          • Oh, so I won’t be able to travel to or live in EU countries after Brexit? Cuh! I had no idea.

            Funny though, I seem to remember travelling to Greece quite easily before we joined the EU – and friends of ours emigrated to Spain.

          • Not sure you could work there quite so easily. And if your friends who emigrated to Spain aren’t dead, they may find that life there gets a bit uncomfortable soon.

          • And I am equally as sure that we will indeed be able to work in EU countries, as they’s be unwise not to mention petty, to not allow that,, especially since we can quite easily go and work in countries like the US if they don’t want us.

            As for Spain, well, we’ll see.

          • Again, you’re free to hold whatever opinion you like – and express it – in our free society. Just as I am completely at liberty to disagree with you.

          • The burning question is why Guevara chooses to exercise that right here – rather a lot – when he espouses not to care about politics!

          • Strange that I can work wherever I like in the rest of the world and live there to – something to do with having necessary skills package and being able to afford it I think.

          • Not to mention that wonderful UK passport of course, which allows you to go pretty much wherever you like.

          • Working in Spain and France is quite difficult now. Not because of Brexit but because they have such high unemployment. France doesn’t consider you fit to work there if your French is just adequate, you need to be fluent in French – it’s a good way to ensure their jobs mostly go to the French. The French have always been good at looking after themselves, we could learn some lessons from them.

          • And I think that’s fair enough really

            Hopefully it won’t be a permanent state of affairs as it is due to a transitory economic state, rather than one designed to punish perfidious Albion because they don’t like our decision to leave the EU.

          • It’s mainly due to its lefty policies. Too many regulations which protect workers who cannot be fired even if they are useless so business owners avoid taking on new staff and expanding their businesses. They also go on strike at the drop of a hat. They retire very early too, in their 50s. Their train service is wonderful when not on strike but it costs their government a fortune.

          • That doesn’t sound very surprising. Greece too is like that. Almost impossible to sack, some employees retire on a pension which ismore than they earned. Bonkers.

            And they voted for socialism but don’t want to pay tax! I still love them though.

          • My wife worked in Germany for a year or so before we were married because she wanted to learn the language. She found a job, got a work permit and found digs.
            She had to report to the police every couple of weeks, show her pay-slip to prove that she was working and provide her address. But there were no benefits, if she couldn’t support herself, she would have been thrown out.
            It seemed reasonable to her at the time and it still seems reasonable; we should be doing exactly the same now.

          • “She had to report to the police every couple of weeks, show her pay-slip to prove that she was working and provide her address.”

            Pity the authorities here don’t have the same arrangement instead of expecting taxpayers to fund an international free-for-all.

          • We could have done, but Blair’s government decided not to bother doing anything to prevent people partaking freely of funded services and benefits from day one. And now, legally, it cannot be altered.

            Other EU members had the sense to put in quite strict controls before Lisbon took effect.

            We have paid the price of our own government’s folly.

      • You are of course a Liberal Establishment toady. Hope that makes you feel really ‘radical’.

    • They like to think that they are the ‘norm’ and the vox populi. That’s why you quite often see leftists banging on in public forums, in the office, wherever, because the assumption is made that everybody else agrees with them.

      When they find out they are actually not in the majority quite often there’s some major mental processing they have to do – and when combined with the Left’s propensity for moral hegemony, where everybody who disagrees with them must be an evil Nazi, it’s not surprising that for many that curdles into disdain and outright hatred.

      Had a colleague in my place of work who since left, we got on well, always met up in the pub for years after he left to chat. He’s a massive lefty and a Labour activist, but somehow we managed to never talk about politics until one year, when we had a ‘debate’ about foreign aid. He was beyond shocked that I was not in favour of foreign aid and thought it immoral, and while I certainly didn’t take any offence he really did. That was that. I can’t really imagine being so intolerant of other political tribes as that, but the Left is. And they even get to be sanctimonious about being ‘inclusive!’.

      A lot of those Remainers had a wake up call, and were suddenly shown that their views were not nearly as popular and as common as they believed.

      • They do indeed presume to speak for everyone. You will often hear their pundits refer to “the public” on TV and radio when they really mean the leftists. And often when on the losing side they play fast and loose with statistics to generate an argument that somehow they won (q.v. Tethys). Their great advantage is that they have seized most empowered areas within the public narrative so get to do a lot more pontificating than anyone else. They absolutely hate it that websites like this exist which is why their trolls gather here.

      • I have friends with views far more to the left than me, and others with views far more to the right. On both sides, they can come up with some hair-raising or merely very stupid and unfounded opinions.

        I note that the hard right nuts are a good deal more accepting of the mere fact of disgreement than the hard left ones, whom one has to tiptoe around on some subjects. In fairness, none of them are petty enough to sever a friendship or relationship over these political differences. I feel sorry for those who have friends, of any political persuasion, whose friendship is conditional on your own views being in close harmony with theirs. They really are not worth it.

  13. Another anti-remainer article without a single idea about what we will gain. The most losing-ist victory ever.

    • Sorry – What Do You Think We – the Leavers, the UK , – are Going To Lose?

      I have lots of ideas about what can be gained and they were adumbrated perfectly by the Leave group during the Referendum. Remain on the other hand had not one single positive message and just dwelt on the risible Project Fear’.

    • My sight is not what it was, but what’s with the hat? Are you an air hostess for some middle east country? If we stay in the EU we lose our country, it will become a region of the EUSSR so there is everything to gain in Leaving. Plain enough for you?

        • You are an Ignorant Troll just sniping and never contributing – you cannot even be bothered to understand what you claim is your side of the debate.

          • Control over immigration. Trading rules better suited to the needs and strengths of each of the parties concerned. Getting rid of both the Common Agriculture Policy and the more disastrous Common Fisheries Policy. Less interference from European legal bodies on UK court cases.

            Along with many, many, many others.

          • Control over immigration….which we already had, but chose to ignore. Trading rules better suited to the needs and strengths of each of the parties concerned….I’d love an example, please, and how we do that from our new position in the world. Getting rid of both the Common Agriculture Policy and the more disastrous Common Fisheries Policy Less interference from European legal bodies on UK court cases….which will happen how?

          • Thanks. Well, we can already. Do you mean fish UK waters unhindered and unlimited, while losing access to other waters?

      • I think it is a pic of the Queen on some tour – Ignore and Block this creature – just snipes and never actually contributes anyhting worthwhile – look at its other comments to see this.

        • You may not value the democratic sovereignty of this country, but many good people have given their lives to bequeath it to us. It was never in the gift of the political establishment to give it away without the consent of the majority to whom it belongs, and the referendum result has righted an historic outrage. Not before time.

          • I’m one of the people who worries about their bank account more than the system under which they live.

          • You mean the sort who knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing? Yes, I rather thought from your posts that you might be.

          • I have rent and bills to pay, a car to keep on the road. So do most people. What your flag is or what colour the bloody passport is just don’t matter.

          • You might like to have that discussion with people who live in North Korea or Zimbabwe for example. The nature of the governmental system under which you live is of huge significance, but is taken for granted by far too many people in western democracies. They will only take notice when it is too late to protect. It is precisely because the erosion of democracy is a by-product of EU membership that many voted to leave.

          • Me not voting is not going to affect anything. And having spoken to people who lived in East Germany, I reckon that I could have survived and even prospered in that system as well. I’m not a democratic absolutist.

          • And having spoken to people who lived in East Germany, I reckon that I could have survived and even prospered in that system as well.

            So long as you had not tried to leave the country, in which case you would have been shot.

          • I suspect Jeni is in her 20s & thinks she’s a member of the elite as she
            has a degree in Government & Politics.

        • Your comment reminds me why we don’t give children the vote. If you’re too immature to talk with the adults then sit at the kiddies table until you’re ready.

    • The Leavers have been telling the Remainers of the benefits for years. The Remainers can’t hear because they are too busy shouting people down. We are already seeing the benefits that Patrick Minford wrote in his report of 2009 for Cardiff University students when discussing EU….benefit or curse.

    • It’s a curious fact that Leavers can and do readily list the advantages and benefits of leaving an inefficient and failing bloc run by unelected, spiteful, incompetent, wasteful, possibly corrupt, autocratic, anti-democratic and meddling functionaries, whereas the Remainers have yet to put forward a single credible advantage of remaining?

        • I just did; perhaps you aren’t able to comprehend very well? But to answer your rather obtuse response, when we leave the EU we will be able to spend our own money on issues that are important to our people living in the UK. We won’t be required to see our money fire-hosed into distant corners of the EU and see it drain away with no tangible advantage to anybody.

          • Thank you. The first person to admit there is nothing positive other than the victory in the vote itself.

          • Dear Mr Wren, I had been making the (ambitious but fading) assumption that you were a genuine seeker after truth rather than a pesky troll (or a junior negotiator for M Barnier’s EU team) but I see that I am mistaken. One last chance; show me one of yours and I will show you yet another one of mine. I won’t hold my breath, so, farewell.

  14. I always despised the Leftoids even as a Labour activist. I withdrew from party politics because of this attitude, although I am based in central London. One thing became clear, Labour no longer represented the interests of the working classes and were too busy chasing ‘identity politics’. Yet the targets are not worth the chase as these ‘identities’ either just want integration/ assimilation and do not ‘identify’ or those that do will dump Labour for some other party which offers them more cozzening.

    When local working class people complained that as both income and council tax payers with relevant NI Contributions all their life, why is it they are denied any place in social housing against the ‘assessed needs’ of those who have literally just arrived and are practically unemployable and therefore non-contributory? The same factors affect access and distribution to education, health and welfare benefits. This is nothing to do with xenophobia or race, it is simply about deserved fair treatment.

    Yet they are castigated by the Politically Correct for this. Well, such ‘generous’ (ie with our money) attitudes may give the utterer a warm fuzzy feeling but it can only lead to total resentment of these posture mongers, who rarely have to deal with the consequences of their policies.

    • I believe that all British people should be housed before we start giving housing to anyone who turns up on our doorstep. Giving such generous benefits to immigrants who arrive without jobs and homes to go to just encourages more to come making the situation worse. And we shouldn’t be allowing rich foreigners buying property in London for the occasional shopping trip leaving their property to stand empty for the rest of the year, gaining of course in value. The housing situation here is not new. Ever since WW2 we have had housing shortages, but it is far, far worse now since that maniac Bliar opened our borders. It used to be that if you couldn’t afford to live in the area you want, you move somewhere cheaper, and don’t keep producing children, and this is still the case if you pay your way but the immigrants seem able to just demand the area they want, while having as many offspring as they can. There was that case recently in the press of a Somalian family, 7 children I think, who now live in a very expensive Georgian house in central London rented to them by some Labour council for £90 per week. I understand the husband is a cleaner and the house is worth over £2 million. He is very happy, of course he is but only the very well off would ever have the money to buy such a house – is this a fair use of housing?

  15. Let us just remind ourselves of the staggering victory the people of this country
    had over the ENTIRE Establishment – every one of them from the vast majority of Political Classes as the major parties and the smaller Nationalist wannabees, the career Civil Service, the Big Brother monopolistic CBI Businesses, the entire Groves of Academe and their associated Swamps of Education, the Quality Press, the Bigoted Broadcasting Corporation, along with its ‘independent’ rivals and thei special ‘dependency class the Commentariat, also the alleged Comedians with their snarling prejudices, the Luvvies of the Glitterati and Culturatti and their associated hangers on of the ‘Sports Personalities’, all of them, ALL, got the biggest Collective Kick in the Crotch and then up the Backside from the vast Majority of the Electorate who turned out in the largest proportion and numbers ever seen in our Country.

    This was achieved not only against the EUroFantasists but also in no small part despite the unremitting propaganda which turned out to be so shallow that even Spending Twice as Much on the Remain side (that does not include the Government Leaflet neutrally explaining we Must Remain – for which Cameron should be Surcharged) as on Leave and We Still Won!

    • Yes, it was a fantastic win I’m just sorry I wasn’t there to see Cameron’s face when he realised he’d failed. Still I can imagine.

      • I think we saw a precursor when the postal votes were unofficially observed. He came out with something akin to ‘think of the children’ and looked stricken.

        I think he knew he might have to resign, and took it quite well. If he hadn’t gone I don’t care to think what might have followed.

    • Yes it was nail biting stuff. By 3am we knew we had won and the feeling of joy followed for me by fear, will never be forgotten. My son In Hong Kong telephoned, knowing I would stay up all night, and congratulated me, but also said you may now get such a nasty backlash you will wonder if you had made the right decision. I didn’t believe him but he was right. We did get the backlash. I have never wavered in my decision, but I have despaired of the constant wailing and whinging of Remainers. We have lost a couple of friends (academics) but heyho, we are on the right side of history because we did this for our grandchildren. To give them choices and democratic rights that were being eroded. It is a pity that the establishment and the chattering classes are so unpatriotic and self centred but at least we know for the future, those to be avoided and those institutions that must now be reorganised.

      • Everyone chooses who they are friends with based, in part, on shared experiences and common ground. When that shifts, you reevaluate your choices.

          • Both my uncles and aunts voted Leave. They now wonder why I don’t send them a Christmas card or return their calls.

          • Some of my family members voted “remain.” I still love them and the know that I do and that would have been the case irrespective of the verdict. It the country had voted “remain” I would have been very disappointed and would think a mistake with serious long-term consequences had been made but it would not have affected by loyalty to this country or my love of it one iota.

            I hope that you are not representative of remain voters but if you are in any way representative of them your lack of love for your uncles and aunts and your previously expressed lack of love and loyalty to this country show that the right side won the referendum.

          • Pragmatism. There is the potential for any family to have a bust-up when it comes to religion and politics, so being reasonably careful about which members you socialise with and how, and what you say when you’re forced into their society is the sensible way forward. It says in the Desiderata, or somesuch, that you need to avoid either people or situations who are vexatious to the spirit, and this would be an instance of observing that maxim. As to Remain voters, as I’ve said before, I didn’t vote because I don’t see the point.

          • You don’t send greetings to close relatives, or communicate with them any longer because they voted Leave, yet you didn’t vote because you didn’t see the point???!!! I’m afraid I only ever come up against this kind of inexplicable thinking from people on the Remain side.

          • I’m afraid that for me you neatly encapsulate the difference between what I perceive to be the solid common sense of the average leave voter and the circuitous pseudo-intellectualism employed by some remainers.

          • I’m not sure I qualify as a remainer as I didn’t vote, but fair enough. It’s your country now, anyway.

          • That is just odd and appears vindictive. Did they do something to you?

            I have people who voted and continue to vote differently from me within family and friends. So what ? We don’t discuss these topics and have many other things to enjoy together.

          • We disagree on a fundamental issue and I want no further contact with them. I appreciate that, at work, you have to have contact with people who vote differently, but in your leisure, you can control your environment more closely and there are certain people that are not welcome. Were a friend to say he or she had voted Leave, he or she would be an ex-friend.

          • We all tolerate and don’t tolerate difference. Some don’t bother us, some we can’t countenance. Where each person draws the line is entirely and utterly individual.

      • We went to sleep at midnight in the knowledge that the remain lot obviously must have won.
        With all their influence in the media, plus a massive campaign featuring the loudest political mouths in the UK, even that very decent ex postman chap who should have been Labour leader, how could those who want national independence win ?
        I’m not a betting man.

    • I was a Ukip + Vote Leave street “fighter”, stiffing leaflets in envelopes and chatting up people from our street stall, so I was in it up to my neck. However all the way through I expected us to lose as our resources were so outnumbered by those of the establishment. But I wanted us to put up a damn good fight !
      So when at 3am, and as a “checker upper” on the vote counters, I saw the result swing in our direction it was truly one of my life’s big moments – sheer heaven !
      Since then I have seen the anger of the losers, the entitled elite, who have curled their lips at us with disdain. Accordingly my attitude towards the establishment has been both illuminated by their appalling reaction, and hardened towards their snobbish and ignorant attitudes – quite a feat for an old, life long conservative !

  16. What an insulting title. I voted for Brexit but the type who espoused insults
    and ranted on about treachery and ‘ getting our country back ‘ made
    me cringe and still do. A lot of intelligent people with economic insight
    who didn’t rant about ideologies voted for Brexit and that is why we won.
    If it was only those running around with swords then we would have lost.

    • The article was about ranting Remainers not ranting Leavers but you choose to focus on the behaviour of Leavers.

      Interesting.

      • Find me an article on ranting leavers and I will gladly have a few debates
        as someone who voted to leave without the need for insults or sword
        wagging.

      • I am never on the side of ranting Remainers or ranting Brexiteers,
        all those who insulted, waved swords or who were intolerant to the
        democratic views of others lost all credibility.
        I prefer plain facts and reality not coated in mawkish ‘ we want our
        country back dribble’ or ‘ we will be’ isolated dribble ‘.

    • You are aware that, in a multi-author blog website, the title of an article is either as chosen or amended by the Editors, and isn’t necessarily always that given it by the original author?

  17. I am not convinced that it is democracy that is dangling by a very tenuous thread: much more worryingly I fear that it is the peaceful and generally law-abiding society that we, as a nation, have enjoyed for generations. If the votes of 17.4 million people are simply disregarded, having as the article says produced the single largest mandate for anything in our history, then why should those voters accept the rule of law at all? If the referendum result is somehow reversed it will be not a betrayal of democracy but the revelation that it is in fact a sham, a cruel deception spun by the establishment to keep the masses under control by creating the illusion that they have some measure of control over their, and their nation’s, governance. Should that be found to be the case, then all bets must be off as to the acceptance by those masses of their continued governance by that establishment, and the result could well be anarchy. Even previously mild-mannered and scrupulously law-abiding individuals could well be moved to take direct action to see their wishes put into effect. Those, like Tony Blair and others, who are attempting to reverse the referendum result are playing a very dangerous game, and it is not clear to me that they fully understand just how perilous it is. I hope they don’t have to learn the hard way. History will not judge them kindly.

    • Very well said. I have always been law abiding and never in my life thought I would rail against a ‘democratic’ government. However, I have spoken to so many people of my generation and younger who are now so frustrated by what we see as our vote being ignored, that we truly are talking of doing something more than b.ogging and writing to our MP. Many have suggested creating bigger rallies but many more have suggested a concerted push on the Houses of Parliament. I cannot afford the train journey yet to London and I would indeed be very frightened of the vicious response we would get from alien Londoners. But I am more than prepared to march on town halls, county offices or indeed the PM’s private address in Maidstone if needs be.

      We now also know that Brussels has no real idea of the Brexit vote. Barnier could be stretching the truth when he says immigration, border controls etc have not been discussed and he has been told the British voted to get more money for the NHS. However, negotiations have been going on for months and nothing has been achieved other than our red lines turning pale pink and our hard earned cash being promised for a deal that probably only covers London.

      Mrs May really does need to up her game. She never did as Home Secretary so will she really be able to as PM?? I doubt it.

      • ‘I would indeed be very frightened of the vicious response we would get from alien Londoners.’

        This sentence really does say it all. What a society that has been created around us that we can no longer stand up for our principles, our votes, our beliefs without that niggling part of us telling us it’d be too dangerous to even voice our concerns. That the left and our government can actually state with a straight face that we are living in a civilised democracy is shocking enough.
        The left have created an environment which works perfectly for them. If anyone challenges it, they’re pilloried, in the media and on the streets. If we do not fight for our principles, the left have already won.
        We cannot let that happen.

        • London is now Londonistan.
          Mayor Khan is busy ejecting white natives and housing gimmigrants in council houses.

      • Nanny May has just promoted another arch remainer to her cabinet – David Lidington – a supposed “Conservative” who had a great deal to say to the Guardian before the referendum about how essential it was that we stayed in the EU.

      • I agree. All that has happened plus the PESCO arrangement confirms to me that we will be out but in something even more repressive than the current EU.

    • The parliamentary expenses scandal a few years ago shows just how law abiding our own MPs are. If they now renege on the referendum result they can hardly expect the general public to cooperate with the organs of state including both the inland revenue and the police. In the past politicians any damage politicians caused was put down to stupidity rather than disloyalty to the country. That is not the case now.

      The reputation of the police has also suffered largely because of careerists who have reached high rank by embracing a politically correct agenda. Lawyers have never been particularly popular but the legal system was thought of us basically fair and incorruptible. That too is changing. The bogus Equalities Act with its list of “protected characteristics” and the obligation on public sector bodies to demonstrate that they are not discriminating against anyone with a “protected characteristic” means that people are no longer equal under the law. The recent spate of rape cases in which vital information was withheld from the defence in order to drive up conviction rates also shows our legal system in a bad light.

      The mainstream media in Britain still do not understand how the sexual abuse scandals in Rotherham and many other English cities have undermined respect for both the law and for local government. It is bad enough that it was thought better to turn a blind eye to rape than be thought racist but the offence has been compounded by the failure to take any action against the officials who failed in their duties. Someone in the public sector would be more likely to suffer disciplinary action for criticising the concept of “gay marriage” on social media or in conversation with colleagues than for turning a blind eye to rape, female genital mutilation, voting fraud or anything that the Guardian would rather we did not know about.

      If parliament does not buck up its ideas it will be creating a mess that would require a new Oliver Cromwell to clear up.

    • Their arrogance and dogmatism blinds them to the magnitude of the risks that they are prepared to incur, simply to stroke their gargantuan egos.

  18. One of the most vocal remainers is a “celebrity” called Lily Allen.
    According to the Sun newspaper, which is better than generally perceived, she has reached a new low for the Labour luvvies/PC brigade
    ” Lily Allen slammed after claiming Rochdale abuse victims ‘would have been raped or abused by somebody else’ even if sex gang didn’t exist
    The singer’s comments prompted an instant backlash as she was labelled ‘vile’ and ‘sick’ and accused of victim-blaming”
    As a rich, remoaner, her contempt for our poorer classes is unsurprising, but none the less
    loathsome.
    It is her type, from Blair to Heseltine, Geldorf to Clegg who have made life hell for the poorer classes in the UK with their love of multiculturalism & mass immigration.
    When we let off most of Salman Rusdie’s tormentors Scott free, that was a grean light for
    every muslim criminal to do what they liked, in the knowledge that few would be prosecuted
    & any punishments light.

  19. Good article. The Remainers are beyond contempt and certainly it is becoming more and more doubtful if we can share the same democratic space with them. If people start to hate each other then it is going to be hard to vote our way out of that.

  20. And if it is overturned we will do nothing as the vast amount of the people who voted leave are not activists, just normal people fed up with being ignored and finally having a choice.
    However revolutions are never started by normal people who have jobs and families and responsibilities. Our sky subscriptions are unfortunately much more valuable than our liberty and the elites know it.

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