Statues of Liberty: Rev Jules Gomes nominates William Tyndale, great reformer who translated the Bible and created modern English

I had my first history lesson at the age of five. My father was treating me to a tour of Bombay. He took me to Shivaji Park, the cradle of Indian cricket. A giant statue of a swordsman on a prancing horse caught my attention. ‘Who’s that?’ I asked. ‘That is Shivaji Maharaj, the great Maratha king, who fought the mighty Mughal and British Empires,’ my dad told me.

On my first tour of Cambridge, where I had arrived from India to pursue a doctorate, my guide spun charming historical narratives around a pantheon of statues dotting the university town. He pointed out ‘the dirty old men of Cambridge’ atop the old Faculty of Divinity – among them Erasmus, who laid the egg that Luther hatched; and Cranmer, architect of the Book of Common Prayer. The white statues set against the backdrop of the redbrick building were sorely in need of a good wash.

You don’t expect statues to sway your emotions (unless sculpted by Bernini), but I was deeply moved by the statue of William Wilberforce, at the entrance to St John’s College Chapel. The figures of Francis Bacon, father of the scientific method, who believed that God had revealed himself through two books – nature and Scripture – surrounded by Isaac Barrow and Isaac Newton at the entrance to Trinity College Chapel, remain forever etched on my memory.

I’ve never stopped asking questions about statues or learning about history from statues. If revisionists doctor history books, the stones will cry out. Never mind the Taliban or Antifa taking the fun out of history by calling for an iconoclasm that would put Cromwell to shame.

It is time to give them a punch in the nose and conserve history in stone. ‘Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty,’ wrote Henry David Thoreau, and I am nominating the original ‘Rebel Priest’, William Tyndale, who disobeys his bishop and bequeaths to us our foundational freedoms – freedom of speech, freedom of conscience and freedom of religion.

Most people know Tyndale as the greatest Bible translator in the English tongue. But beyond this, Tyndale becomes the ‘Father of Modern English.’ Working with a language lacking precision and standardisation, Tyndale shapes the syntax, grammar, and vocabulary of English more than Chaucer or Shakespeare during its transition from Middle English to Early Modern English. Tyndale constructs the refined speech of a nation that becomes the lingua franca of the world.

Tyndale’s lesser-known contribution to liberty, tolerance and the British and American constitutional order parallels his outstanding achievements in language and Bible translation. Liberty and language are intertwined in the work of the great reformer who seeks the ‘democratisation of the Bible’.

Constitutional lawyer Michael Farris, in From Tyndale to Madison: How the Death of an English Martyr led to the American Bill of Rights, debunks the standard mythology that the Enlightenment is responsible for the religious and other freedoms we enjoy today. It is Tyndale who sows the seeds of this exceptional accomplishment, he argues.

In 1522, Oxford scholar and cleric William Tyndale secures a position in Little Sodbury, Gloucestershire, as tutor for the children of the lord of the manor, Sir John Walsh, and his wife, Lady Anne. A theological debate erupts between him and another cleric, in which Tyndale demonstrates that his interlocutor’s position is contrary to the Bible.

The priest defiantly seeks to put down Tyndale’s biblical knowledge by claiming that the church is better off with the Pope’s laws than God’s laws. ‘I defy the Pope and all his laws,’ retorts the original Rebel Priest. ‘If God spare my life many years, I will cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more of Scripture than you do.’

Envious clerics fabricate charges of heresy. Tyndale is brought to trial. ‘This I suffer because the priests of the country be unlearned,’ he exclaims. How true! But none of the clergy publicly stand as his accusers and Tyndale is exonerated.

The Constitutions of Oxford (1408) have made it illegal to translate the Bible into English or to own an English Bible. Tyndale approaches Bishop of London Cuthbert Tunstall for permission to translate the New Testament from Greek into English. Tunstall turns him down. Tyndale flees to Cologne and later to Worms where he completes his translation of the New Testament in early 1526. By February, copies of Tyndale’s translation are selling like hot cakes in London.

Bishops order Tyndale’s Bible to be burned and booksellers to stop sales. At a public burning of Tyndale’s New Testament, Bishop Tunstall preaches at St Paul’s Cathedral, rubbishing the translation as having more than two thousand errors.

Tyndale defends himself with an argument that becomes foundational for the freedom of conscience: every man has the right to look in the Word of God and decide for himself whether what is being taught is true. He accuses the church’s hierarchy for ‘laws of your own making, wherewith ye violently bind the lay people that never consented unto the making of them’, thus endorsing the principle of democracy wherein all laws require the people’s consent.



‘Tyndale’s concepts of law by consent of the governed, even-handed justice, religious equality before the law, due process, fair trials, the freedom to speak, publish, and to decide for one’s self the truth about God were prescient and profound,’ writes Farris. ‘He advanced these concepts into the English system at a time when, at least in practice, they were utterly foreign. These conclusions were the necessary outgrowth of his belief that men should have the Scripture in their own language so they could come to God directly as individuals by their own choice rather than according to the dictates of either government or the hierarchical church.’

Tyndale is one of the first scholars to use secular history to argue against the church usurping the lawfully constituted authority of secular government. In his controversy with Lord Chancellor Thomas More, he charges ‘that by a combination of force and guile the Pope and his clergy wrested the government of the European states from the lawful rulers.’

​​​​​​​Brad Pardue in Printing, Power, and Piety: Appeals to the Public during the Early Years of the English Reformation, explores how Tyndale also lays the groundwork for the idea of the ‘public’ and the central place it now occupies in Western society. Thanks to the printing press, which produces copies of Tyndale’s Bible, for the first time in history the public is able to judge the ‘validity of revolutionary ideas’ through a mass-medium which uses the vernacular.

Church and State can no longer tolerate Tyndale the troublemaker. He is tried for heresy, condemned, strangled and burned at the stake. His final prayer ‘Lord, open the King of England’s eyes,’ is partly answered when three years later in 1539, Henry VIII orders every parish church in England to make a copy of the English Bible available to its parishioners.

For Tyndale, God is the author of liberty. It is this radical concept that sows the seeds of modern idea of freedom, even if sections of the church’s hierarchy are hell-bent on tyranny. It is often argued that Muslim nations have failed because they have had no movement comparable to the Enlightenment. It would be more plausible to argue that Muslim nations have failed because they have had no figure comparable to William Tyndale.

Rev Jules Gomes

  • timbazo

    A timely reminder of the need for freedom of expression and the threats to it, both religious and political.

    • Charitas Lydia

      So necessary to look back and see from where we have come before we allow the modern day iconoclasts to remove our national boundaries. Back to the Basics is a good idea.

  • Revd Robert West

    Tyndale’s1534 translation of the New Testament is available, in updated spelling, with an introduction by David Daniell, published by Yale University Press: and in some ways it is more up-to-date than the Authorised Version of 1611. It is also available in a like edition by Wordsworth Classics with an introduction by Priscilla Martin.

    It is definitely Modern English, and is a powerful read: may I commend it to all.

  • Ravenscar

    Bishops order Tyndale’s Bible to be burned and booksellers to stop sales.

    Oh dear God, will they never learn?

    By the time they start to burn books, they’ve lost the plot and all chance of any argument and Indeed William Tyndale should be celebrated quite rightly as one of the greatest Englishmen.

    Church and State can no longer tolerate Tyndale the troublemaker. He is
    tried for heresy, condemned, strangled and burned at the stake.

    Dear God in heaven, mankind can be so stupid but stupidity and man are intertwined and if we never learn the lessons history provides us with, then we condemn ourselves to repeat them.

    In the new terror which is began, the Critical theorists have made it so that as accorded by George Orwell:

    “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionarly act”

    Strewth, yesterday some thugs hung a banner over a Manchester bridge with ghoulish hanging effigies of Conservative MPs/supporters……………….So it goes to the NTH DEGREE and then is it not pertinent to beg.

    Who will be the first noughties Martyr, immolated on the pyre of Political correctness and before the barbarous extremist cult which idolize and prosecute it?

  • The Duke of Umberland, England

    Rev Gomes

    Well presented and well argued.

    During the Middle Ages science in Arab countries ceased to develop – could it be that the concept of ‘fate’ in Islam halted progress?

    Whilst in the West scientists, holding a Judeao-Christian world-view, conducted science on the basis of thinking God’s thoughts after Him?

    No wonder the West became the best.

    Of course now that Judeao-Christianity is on the retreat in the West – it can no longer be the best.

    • Charitas Lydia

      Judeo- Christianity is not on the retreat in the West, it is the mindset of the Lefists, Cultural Marxists and ultra-feminists who want to do away with it since it opposes their extremely selfish and destructive agenda. These people are not only selfish but also extremely ungrateful to the Judeo- Christian foundation for the society in the West.

      • The Duke of Umberland, England

        It is your last sentence that confirms it is on the retreat.

        • Fred Uttlescay

          No god thingy, that’s the problem. People are slowly realising that it’s all bollocks.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            If so, then on what basis would you rest, for example, freedom on?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Your question makes no sense. Religious faith chokes freedom.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            How does Judeao-Christianity choke ‘freedom’?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            All varieties of religion are about mind control of the ignorant. Believe this crap or die. It used to work, not any longer.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            All varieties of atheism are about mind control of the ignorant. Believe this crap or die (Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin). It used to work, not any longer. It still works in universities, or where there are fewer intelligent people.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Atheism is the default for all human beings. If a child isn’t taught about Vishnu for example, or any other gods they are atheists.

          • Tricia

            Worship is within the DNA of the human being. You can see this from all ancient societies. They are generally worshipping the creation. The default is certainly not atheism. Atheism is the state of privilege in a society cushioned by a lack of basic need and without a fear of not having a safe place to sleep or food to eat. When faced with extreme danger prayer is never far away!

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Atheism is not being a theist. It’s like you are with all gods except one. I don’t make that exception because there’s no reason to.

          • Charitas Lydia

            Rubbish!!s People do not need to be taught about God in their childhood. Go to primitive communities in remote parts of the world. Anthropologists have proved this that people in these communities have a belief system without even having any education and that belief system has to do with the Higher Being in which they all believe. Atheism is a modern fad. Human beings are spiritual and moral beings as much as they are physical, Psychological and volitional beings.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You must know that is nonsense. Laughable.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            ‘Atheism is the default for all human beings.’

            True: until a man grows and matures.

            Even a man like Einstein, who did not believe in God, said, ‘God does not play dice with the universe.’

            Of course, it would take a mature mind to understand what he meant.

          • That is possibly the most ridiculous argument for atheism I have ever heard! “Children (who are completely unsophisticated in their logic and reasoning abilities) are atheists so adults (who should now be able to reason correctly) should be atheists”! Please!

          • Fred Uttlescay

            I know from experience that a child not taught to be a theist will not be one.

          • Is that a whole new ridiculous argument for atheism or just an extension of your first one? Perhaps you should consider whether the sample size of “your own experience” is extensive enough to risk your own eternal destiny as well as the eternal destiny of all the people your terrible arguments may fool.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            How is it ridiculous? Don’t you accept that religion is taught?

          • Please re-read my comment, particularly the bits in brackets which I included purposefully to avoid any ambiguity as to why your argument is ridiculous (aspiring to beliefs that uninformed, uneducated, philosophically unsophisticated children hold is most certainly not a sign of intellectual or academic rigour). To answer your second complex question fallacy, yes I believe certain beliefs are taught including atheistic beliefs.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Atheism doesn’t need to be taught, any more than a child needs to be taught not to believe in fairies.

          • Oh I see what you are trying to do…you’re trying to cheat! Next you are going to tell me that atheism is not a belief that God does not exist but a “lack of belief in God”. Let me skip ahead a few interactions and tell you that is also absolutely ridiculous. Do you really think by switching the position of a negative in a proposition you can rigg the question so you do not have to produce any evidence. That is intellectual dishonesty – you are cheating! Let me take a page out of your “atheism for dummies” handbook and tell you I don’t need to present any evidence for God because guess what… I dont have a belief that God exists…I have a “lack of belief” that He does not exist! So I too now can make the exact same RIDICULOUS argument as you and claim the innate “lack of belief” in God not existing that children have demonstrates we should all be Christians!

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You are very confused. An atheist is someone that is not a theist. Someone that doesn’t believe in gods. I don’t have a negative belief system for every god. Of course I can’t produce evidence for a lack of beings that only exist as human brain farts.

          • No, the problem is that I understand atheism better than you. I think if anything, you coming here and using your fallacious arguments for atheism on actual Christians rather than just other atheists has rather succinctly demonstrated the huge problems with your current belief system. Perhaps it’s time for a rethink on your part!

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Looks like atheists know more about Christianity than Christians do!
            http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Smug self-righteousness and a penchant for judging and ridiculing others is certainly not limited to religious folk (as you have proven). Unless you count atheism as a religion, which some do.

            It has been wisely said that it takes more ‘faith’ and mental gymnastics to disbelieve in God than to believe in God. I refer you to the excellent book by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek, “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist.”

            The only real psychospiritual reason for NOT believing in God is the attempt to avoid accountability for one’s selfish and sometimes downright evil choices. It allows one to do whatever he wants without reference to an absolute authority outside oneself. One can then regard oneself as a little god (the same temptation we hear in the Genesis narrative of Adam and Eve).

            Of course, IF there IS a God as portrayed in the Bible, disbelieving in Him won’t make Him go away. We will still reap what we sow. The subjective philosophy of existential relativity (“truth is what I say it is”) will never hold water, much less provide protection from the consequences of our choices and actions. As both Judeo-Christian and eastern religions believe, karma extends far beyond this short life. I find it far easier to believe in an omnipotent, just and loving God than in some Principle of Randomness which “miraculously” produced this universe of amazing order and beauty (not to mention human beings). That latter idea is downright droll.

            Although when I was young, I took a small leap of faith to believe in God and in Jesus Christ as His Son, in the 60-something years since then, walking with God and receiving an immense amount of (almost daily) evidence of His presence and love, no one could make me lose my faith.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            We know that all experience is mediated by the brain. This is confirmed, there is real evidence, it cannot be denied. That means an afterlife is impossible.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Yours is a total assumption based on a reliance on material natural science and the avoidance of many thousands of years of human experience of the supernatural (and the reports from people being both resuscitated and resurrected). There are a number of good books out there by physicians reporting on people returning from death and reporting on both heavenly and hellish realities.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            So even though diseases of the brain like Alzheimers and dementia can destroy all memories and cognitive functions (the soul if you prefer), we die and a brain is reduced to a pile of ash or rotten meat, if we ask for forgiveness we can all meet Jesus and play in the meadow with all the friends and family we knew during our lifetime.
            Are you serious?

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Your way of putting it is rather simplistic but close enough to the biblical revelation. Billions of people have been serious about this and believe it. Many of them have been brilliant scientists. Atheism is espoused by only a weak and angry minority.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            So because an otherwise brilliant scientist believes a lie it becomes true, and the truth is subject to a popular vote. The ancient Greeks believed in their gods, many of them highly intelligent. Does that mean those gods must have existed? There are many intelligent Muslims. Does that validate Islam or make it true?

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Fred,
            Since right now there can be no absolute proof of either the existence of God or the non-existence of God (a negative is much harder to prove, by the way), we do what both juries do and science does to establish truth— a consensus of opinion after the facts have been presented. Science (peer reviewed research) depends upon acceptance by other scientists. Courtroom decisions by juries are accomplish by 12 peers. Many thousands of years worth of people (billions) who testify that God exists at least should get our serious attention (not to mention the witness of the Bible). But not your attention of course, Fred, because in your solipsistic hubris, you think you know it all and the rest of us are idiots.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Anyone, even you, can tell that the god fables are nonsense. Gods are fragile things, they can be destroyed easily by science (no afterlife possible) and common sense.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Made up gods (called idols) are indeed nothing. But there is one very real omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God. No fable.
            “It is not a case of proving first and then believing. We cannot believe theological truths for non-theological reasons. Rather, it is only when we encounter the living God in faith that we are in a position to grasp the truth of Christian faith. God then enables us to see with spiritual eyes what we could not previously see. ” — Professor Colin Brown

            The common sense of the majority of peoples have agreed (this is testimonial evidence, not incontrovertible proof). For you to deny out of hand the experiences of billions of people is terribly closed-minded.
            You just cannot imagine encountering the living God … or else the idea scares you to death. Your mind is bound to a very small prison.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Wishful thinking caused by heavy duty indoctrination. You want your god to exist so badly you can’t imagine it not existing, but non-existent it most certainly is.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            You wish.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            The issue is not how one comes to believe (however naively) in God. The real bottom line point is always about the content and validity of the belief (is it true?), not about how or when one came to believe.

            And [Jesus] said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:3-4)

            “Truly I tell you, if anyone does not receive the kingdom of God like a little child, he will never enter it.” (Luke 18:17, cf, Mark 10:15)

            Once one has become committed to some belief system as an adult, the individual becomes so ego-invested in that system (pride and a sense of identity) that it is nearly impossible to convince him otherwise, regardless of the evidence and rational arguments. I am talking about you, Fred.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You need better sources for your information. Don’t just rely on one.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            So where did the first theists come from? Who taught them?
            Your own experience, by the way, is extremely limited.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Tribes invented war gods, your god came from one of them. Yahweh.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Now you want us to believe your crap instead.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            I don’t care, frankly.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Yes you do!

          • Fred Uttlescay

            It is unfortunate that so many people believe in nonsense, but it’s your loss.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            It is the atheists who have caused losses on the industrial scale. It is that which you need to reflect upon.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            They weren’t true atheists. Was Hitler a true Christian?

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            How do you know given that you base your judgments on subjectivity?

            Again, you are snookered.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You are too silly, and hide your comments. Go away now.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Fred,
            If you did not care, or did not struggle secretly with these religious issues, you would definitely not be spending all this time and energy interacting with Christians on this thread. What a waste! Or perhaps you are so miserable that you have nothing better to do. Just by commenting here all this time, you are advertising your lost and wounded soul. You must be a victim of religious abuse to be so strongly atheistic..

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Rather, one particular faith (in Christ) can free you from the enslavement to your self-centered (sinful) desires and behaviors, and from your fear of death.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You must be ashamed of your posts.

          • I doubt very much he is. One is never ashamed of publishing the truth. You, on the other hand…

          • Fred Uttlescay

            I meant because you can’t read his postings. Neither of you know what the truth is, you’ve both been so thoroughly indoctrinated into believing in utter nonsense.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Most of the fans of Jules Gomez have no difficulties reading my posts and usually agreeing with them. Perhaps the problem in understanding lies in your own brain and not in my writing.

            More likely your confusion comes from spiritual deadness. As a wise man put it: “The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” (1 Cor 2:14). “The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God” (Romans 8:6-8).

            What this means is that prior to faith, we all are spiritually dead. But with first faith, we are “born again from above” by the Holy Spirit. So of course you as an unbeliever will not be able to understand very much of these scriptures or what I share. These waters are way too deep for you. However, I suggest that there are others reading here who understand me just fine.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You’re all as crazy as each other.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            And YOU, who do not mind denying and even blaspheming the Lord, are pointing the finger of shame at ME? You are terribly deceived, young man. I have my weaknesses and I certainly have sinned (may do so again, but I hope not), but I am both forgiven and made a child of God. Not a fully mature child, but a beloved child who walks through life with my divine brother Jesus, guided by His Spirit.

            As the Apostle Paul revealed: “Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn?

            Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? …
            No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor
            height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to
            separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
            (Romans 8:33-39)

            All this means less than nothing to you because you cannot understand it, much less believe it. This is very sad. But as long as you are breathing, there is hope. You have not yet been cast into the perpetual incinerator.

  • MorganCourtenay

    Excellent choice!

  • Another outstanding article from the Reverend Gomes! If the Rev Jules was on Strictly the missus could probably convince me to watch it! Great work Dr. Gomes – keep it up!

  • Outstanding choice! He was all you say, and perhaps more. Along that same line, I am reminded that Lincoln’s famous phrase, “Government of the people, by the people, and for the people” is not his but a direct quote from Wycliffe’s General Prologue of 1384.

    “This Bible is for the Government of the People, by the People, and for the People.”

    And in that age, the people hearing it, knew that it was. Amazing how far back the roots of America are sunk in English history, and how far the UK has strayed from it.

    • Heather Fleming

      Especially amazing the last part of your last sentence!

      • Not that we haven’t plenty of faults along that line ourselves, of course.

    • Fred Uttlescay

      There are many of us, the majority in the UK, that have realised the universe is godless, but we still have far too many people that haven’t realised it yet.

      • Charitas Lydia

        You only have a few years left before you sing Allah save the Ayatollah and Islam takes over and you then bow down to Shariah Law. Good luck with your atheism then.

        • Fred Uttlescay

          Theists are a problem. I just said so.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Do concentrate. We are discussing Tyndale allied to Judeao-Christianity.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Judaism which Islam is derived from. Check all the prohibitions, identical.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Islam has plagiarised ideas from Judeao-Christianity. The plagiarism is obvious in some elements and with added twists. Hence, Islam is producing entirely different results to Judeao-Christianity.

            For example, when Islam appeared Arabic science came to a halt because of the concept of ‘fate’ (what will be will be as Allah wills) – so there was no point in doing science.

            You conflate Judeao-Christianity with all other religions and think, like Blair and the National Socialists, that all roads up the mountain lead to the same thing. They do not. As the Muslamics have frequently pointed out: ‘We love death, you love life.’

          • Fred Uttlescay

            They are all related, known as the Abrahamic faiths.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            A convenient short-hand term for lazy lay historians. It is evidentbthat it is the laziness you support. Thinking requires effort.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You can’t do it.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            This is a Christian article. Why are you even here other than to cause trouble as a troll?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            So it can’t be questioned? Let me tell you, I was raised to believe in God nonsense too.

          • Probably about time to quit feeding this foolish troll. All we’re really accomplishing here is to clog up comments on Dr.Gomes fine article.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            If it wasn’t to be discussed it wouldn’t be a blog, would it?

          • Bruce Atkinson

            So why don’t you stick to the article instead of pushing atheism? They call it “trolling for converts.”

          • Fred Uttlescay

            We were all atheists once. Then we were taught tribal fiction.

      • Colonel Mustard

        You are not the majority. Just one of the noisiest minorities. Look at the way you are all over this thread, frothing because not everyone buys the tripe you peddle.

      • Bruce Atkinson

        “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway
        to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way.” (Matthew 7:13, NLT). Yes, most English people have abandoned the faith … and will pay the price.

        • Fred Uttlescay

          You pay the price of ridicule.

          • You certainly do, here and more importantly, later.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            About 12:30?

  • Freedom was founded on the cross of Christ!

    “For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom
    as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.”
    Galatians 5:13

    • Fred Uttlescay

      Not quite. Freedom predates Christ by a considerable margin.

      • Not really, although libertinism does.

        • Fred Uttlescay

          Moral values don’t come from religion. I’m hoping you realise that.

          • Arthur Peacock

            I’m hoping he doesn’t – because it isn’t true!

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Of course it’s true! Religion comes from us, morality evolves with us.

          • Tricia

            Really! What happened to Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler etc. Morality is in decline in the west because we no longer believe in God and have too much belief in ourselves, even though we should know better

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Same old nonsense trotted out time after time. Don’t you ever get bored with such silliness?

          • Bruce Atkinson

            “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.”‘ (Psalm 14:1, Psalm
            53:1).

            “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

            For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave
            thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts
            were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” (Romans 1:18-25)

            Self-worship is foolishness.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.”‘

            if i was inventing a god I would certainly put that into my holy book. Fools everyone.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Atheism— means “against God” or against all belief in God. In other words, if there were no God to be against, there would be no atheism. It is simply a rebellious reaction to an unwanted reality.

            In the same way that darkness does not really exist in its own right, since it is merely the absence of light, and cold does not really exist in its own right, since it is merely the absence of heat, likewise it is true that atheism does not really exist in its own right … since it is merely the absence of faith in God.

            You can sing “I did it my way” and play your air guitar all you want, it won’t make God go away.

          • Charitas Lydia

            So it is right to murder a 26 day old baby as Prof Peter Singer (atheist) from Princeton University advocates?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Is it right to force a child to carry the child of a rapist as the Catholics think?

          • Bruce Atkinson

            You did not answer the question by Charitas. Few would condemn a woman for aborting the product of rape, but all life has value. Who knows what that child may become that aids humanity in a big way. Not for us to say.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            I can’t answer the first point as I know nothing about it. Is it for the girl to say or should she be forced to bear the child?

          • Charitas Lydia

            Why not castrate the rapist instead of murdering the child?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            As long as the rape victim has the option to abort as well, fine.

          • teigitur

            How can morality evolve? You really are a hoot.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Our moral values evolve with us and our law follows. Christianity merely reflects the moral standards in society at the time it was concocted. We no longer think that gay people should be put to death. Deal with it.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Moral values cannot evolve from: Time+Chance+Material.

            Before one can even answer that one has to explain how Time, Chance and Material came into existence. The Second Law of Thermodynamics (the degradation of matter over time) and the Law of Non-Contradiction demand it.

            You my friend, are snookered.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Was it spoken into existence, like in the bible?

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Have the laws of science caused a single event?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            No, but God hasn’t either. Everything happens naturally.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Didn’t you attend school? Every event has a cause. Now that you don’t believe that the laws of science have caused a single event, and nor has God; what then is your explanation for the exsitence of time, space and matter bearing in mind the Second Law of Thermodynamics (which has been explained to you)?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            The laws of nature do the job. No gods or magic, but better.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Go, away.

          • Charitas Lydia

            You really live in cloud cuckoo land. I thought laws by definition are abstract principles. How can an abstract principle create anything?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Are chemical reactions cloud cuckoo to you? Does Jesus make your car go rusty? Laws of chemistry in action.

          • He doesn’t, because you are simply correct. Somebody needs a cluebat. Nothing comes from nothing, and even a child knows better than that.

          • Charitas Lydia

            God has created us as moral beings and that is the origin of our morality. Without God there is no objective moral standard against which our own moral or immoral actions could be judged.
            If you do not believe in God, you do not have any absolutes against which you can decide what is right and wrong.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            My moral standards are far higher than God.

          • Charitas Lydia

            What is the objective standard for your morality?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            It’s subjective of course.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            So was the standards of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao – the list is almost endless. That sort of company is not recommeded.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Yawn.

          • Arthur Peacock

            Iran is not a “primitive society”, it’s a civilisation more ancient than our own. I’m starting to wonder if you say these things just to wind people up.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            It hasn’t evolved like ours has. They haven’t realised the universe is godless yet.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Daft.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Indeed they are.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            The remark is directed at you.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Fred,
            You are a silly little god of your own making with your own small-minded solipsistic opinions. We will see how far that gets you on Judgment Day.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Your god is sillier than me. Judgement day, listen to yourself. Nobody can experience anything after the brain is dead.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Can’t prove anything about this until you are dead. Oh yeah, you believe that when you are dead, you’re dead, so that there will be no proving anything to you or to me.

            But unbeknownst to you, there is in fact a spiritual and heavenly reality beyond this material world. Since the Resurrection of Jesus, all humans are now immortal— some will go with Him into the heavenly Kingdom and I imagine you know what happens to the rest. Your eternal destiny all depends upon whether you believe the words and actions of God’s Son while you are here … or whether you reject Him. Your choice.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Utter garbage. Tribal moonshine.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            Your words will convict you. But you are not yet dead physically, you can still repent and get to know the Lord.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You don’t know the Lord either. Stop your fibbing.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            You, of course, cannot know of my own experiences so it is easy for you to disbelieve what I say. But because you do not know, neither can you say I am lying. You just don’t know, and for you to say this would be honest. Saying that I am fibbing is itself fibbing because you truly do not know.
            Nor can I convince you of something you do not want to believe. But God is my witness and that will always be good enough for me.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            OK, then you should be able to describe the Lord for me.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            I am glad to describe the Lord for you. Of course the gospels, in revealing Jesus Christ, are showing us the nature of God, but I know this is not what you mean.

            God is just, loving, merciful, all powerful, gracious, patient, all knowing, kind, strict about morality and honesty, generous, and He is virtually everything else one would want a true Father God to be, including having a sense of humor.

            You obvious next question: How do I know God? Let me count the ways. God (the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit) communicates with me in many ways, so many that I cannot name them all. God cannot be limited, cannot be contained, cannot be totally described.

            He often connects through that “still small voice” in intuition, at other times via an actual voice that I hear inside (usually during prayer) —which is always gentle, loving, but firm with that sense of authority– so that I cannot doubt Who it is that is speaking. He also speaks
            to me through events and miracles, through other people, through the scriptures (with an inner guidance when I study them, giving me insights I could not otherwise have), when worshiping in the congregation, when exercising my spiritual gifts to help other people.

            But I have not “seen” God with my physical eyes, this is true, but I constantly see the results of His presence and will. I do not have to
            “see” air or gravity or love to know that they exist and are accomplishing what they are here to do.

            I suggest you read “Knowing God” by J. I. Packer and “Experiencing
            God” by Henry Blackaby and Claude King… just for starters.

          • Phil R

            My moral standards are far higher than God.

            Lol

            By who’s measure…….?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            By any measure. Look what it did, all in its alleged book.

          • Phil R

            Judge and jury to God then

            That you say you believe doesn’t exist

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Anyone as monstrous as God would be jailed for life.

          • Bruce Atkinson

            The virulence of your hostility toward the idea of God betrays your having been a victim of religious
            abuse, probably by a legalistic sect (or by hyper-religious controlling parents). Otherwise you would have a little more respect for the beliefs of others. Your reactions are purely emotional rather than based on reason.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Superb!

          • teigitur

            Yes, they do.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            No, they do not.

          • teigitur

            You are common or garden a-theist troll who knows little about western values and where they originated. They all, in as much as they still exist, derive from our Judeo- Christian heritage. Get over it.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            You are a common or garden ignorant Catholic ninny that thinks the universe was created by magic incantations. Why did God tell his vicar on earth to make the serial paedophile Jimmy Savile a papal knight? Some morality that is. We had paganism before the Christian hordes destroyed all the temples in their lovely peaceful Jesus like way. Surely we derived our values from that. Did the Greeks get their moral values from their gods?
            You are incorrect. You get over it.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            As you appear to want paganism and its temples – then you are in good company with the National Socialists of Germany and their Temple of Pergamon – so admired by Albert Speer and that Corporal from Bohemia.

          • Fred Uttlescay

            And you are in good company with the majority of the Nazis in Germany. While there were few pagans there were over 90% Christians. Godwin’s law never works as an argument.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            The Nazis needed to reject the Source of objective morality in order to be free to kill on the industrial scale.

      • Both I and the Scriptures beg to differ I’m afraid. Christ is the 2nd Person of the Godhead and nothing predates God!

        • Fred Uttlescay

          I said Christ. Around 2,000 years.

          • And I said “Christ is the 2nd Person of the Godhead and nothing predates God!”

            “Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” – John 8:58

          • Fred Uttlescay

            So when was the birth of Christ?

          • Have you heard of the complex question fallacy?

          • Fred Uttlescay

            Let me tell you the answer. it was 2019 years ago.

  • Bruce Atkinson

    Thank you very much, Jules, for this important slice of history and to honor the martyred saint William Tyndale. He was a wonderful example for all of us and was used greatly by God in many ways (as you have shown).